Man jailed for stealing a bike...

[Supersuperleeds]

"The theft happened two weeks before the 10 mile TT championships last year, but the bike was found and returned in time for the race – which Jensen won"

Golden.

He must have managed not to go through the barricades if he won.

 

[ColinJ]

Shame property is more valued than human life

In what way?

I think the point was that a cyclist-killing driver usually doesn't get a prison sentence!

I don't think that poor sentencing for dangerous driving should result in thieves being let off lightly - start jailing the dangerous drivers too!

 

[al78]

I think the point was that a cyclist-killing driver usually doesn't get a prison sentence!

If there is a case of a driver deliberately killing a cyclist (I mean with proven actual intent) and not being given a jail sentence, I would be interested to see it.

 

[ColinJ]

If there is a case of a driver deliberately killing a cyclist (I mean with proven actual intent) and not being given a jail sentence, I would be interested to see it.

I'm not talking about drivers not going to jail for deliberately killing cyclists. I'm talking about the stupidly low sentences they get for deliberately or negligently maiming or killing people.

For example. the case of psychotic driver Carl Baxter ...

The court had heard how Baxter passed within a few feet of Stephen Kerwin, his wife and daughter, on their bikes on the A1034 on 23 June last year.

Mr Kerwin raised his fist at the passing Range Rover and within minutes an "angry" Baxter had stopped and was reversing "at speed" towards the family.

Mr Kerwin and his daughter, Emily, who was being towed by her father in a trailer, were crushed by the reversing vehicle.

Emily was left unconscious for six days with serious head injuries.

She also suffered a broken jaw, nose, blurred vision and four lost teeth.

Her father suffered a broken pelvis, leg and ribs and had to have three operations

Baxter, of Market Weighton, East Yorkshire, had pleaded guilty to two counts of inflicting grievous bodily harm, dangerous driving and failing to stop at the scene of an accident.

The court heard the self-employed road haulage boss had a previous conviction for assaulting a motorist after a road accident in 1994.

He also had convictions for reckless driving and speeding.

In jailing Baxter, Recorder Guy Kearl, QC, said: "You didn't stop, you drove off and left them in the road on their own, helpless.

"Incidents such as these, appalling as they are, will not be tolerated by the courts."

The sentence for what any right-minded person would consider to be attempted murder? Two years!

What's that - about 8 months with time off for good behaviour?

 

[al78]

I'm not talking about drivers not going to jail for deliberately killing cyclists. I'm talking about the stupidly low sentences they get for deliberately or negligently maiming or killing people.

Well if you are going to compare different crimes and different sentences, you need to take into account whether the act was deliberate or not, otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges. Since the OP was about theft, which is a deliberate, malicious act, if you want to compare sentences with those for drivers killing cyclists, you should compare with deliberate attempts to kill cyclists. It does matter whether the act was intentional or not, even in cases where the outcome is the same.

I agree that the sentence given in your example was crap, as that driver clearly had a mentality that made him a real danger to the public.

I wonder in some cases if the sentences are lenient because they can only get a conviction with an upper ceiling on the sentence, even though the judge may wish to give a harsher sentence. Perhaps someone on here who is involved in the legal system can verify whether this is true.

 

[ColinJ]

Well if you are going to compare different crimes and different sentences, you need to take into account whether the act was deliberate or not, otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges. Since the OP was about theft, which is a deliberate, malicious act, if you want to compare sentences with those for drivers killing cyclists, you should compare with deliberate attempts to kill cyclists. It does matter whether the act was intentional or not, even in cases where the outcome is the same.

If you slip while holding a shotgun and it goes off and kills someone - that's a tragic accident. If you load a shotgun and start messing about with it in a crowded room and it goes off and kills someone, you had no malicious intent but you were grossly negligent and deserve to do some prison time. Why treat driving differently?

A man who lived up the road from us used to drive like an idiot. People said that he would end up killing somebody, and he did - he knocked a cyclist off his bike and killed him. He got a short ban and spent the time complaining about how unfair it was to be banned because some old twit got in his way. He got his licence back and started driving recklessly again. He didn't set out to deliberately kill anyone else but a couple of years later he did - a young boy and his grandfather who were out walking along a country lane. The car was going so fast that the driver was unable to stop, killed the 2 family members, then the car ploughed through a hedge, flipped over and came to rest on its roof in the middle of a field. Despite ample evidence of grossly excessive speed, the driver just got another fine and a short ban. Once more, he spent his ban complaining about how poorly treated he had been ...

Lock 'em up!

 

[DiddlyDodds]

"The appeal reached BBC radio DJ Robert Elms and Gary Kemp from the band Spandau Ballet, who raised £700 to replace Jensen's bike. The money was given back."

If I was the BBC and Gary Kemp of Spandau Ballet, I would be embarrassed to admit only £700 was raised, between them surely they could have replaced the bike for him, that type of publicity is priceless.

 

[al78]

If you slip while holding a shotgun and it goes off and kills someone - that's a tragic accident. If you load a shotgun and start messing about with it in a crowded room and it goes off and kills someone, you had no malicious intent but you were grossly negligent and deserve to do some prison time. Why treat driving differently?

It shouldn't be, I don't disagree about that. I was disagreeing about the comparison with theft. Theft is a deliberate act (I don't think it is possible to accidentally deprive someone of property) so if you want to compare with driving related sentences you should compare it with deliberate dangerous driving.

Driving offenses seem to fall into a spectrum from momentary lapse of concentration to deliberately running someone down and killing them (murder), with several different categories in between. Theft doesn't really have that, either you deliberately stole someones property or you didn't. Perhaps a better comparison with driving offenses would be workplace incidents where similar causes of injury or death exist, from a lapse of concentration, to negligence, to murder. How does the sentencing of workplace incidents compare to driving incidents?

A man who lived up the road from us used to drive like an idiot. People said that he would end up killing somebody, and he did - he knocked a cyclist off his bike and killed him. He got a short ban and spent the time complaining about how unfair it was to be banned because some old twit got in his way. He got his licence back and started driving recklessly again. He didn't set out to deliberately kill anyone else but a couple of years later he did - a young boy and his grandfather who were out walking along a country lane. The car was going so fast that the driver was unable to stop, killed the 2 family members, then the car ploughed through a hedge, flipped over and came to rest on its roof in the middle of a field. Despite ample evidence of grossly excessive speed, the driver just got another fine and a short ban. Once more, he spent his ban complaining about how poorly treated he had been ...

Lock 'em up!

I agree, that sociopath is a danger to the public and should be locked up.

 

[awfulquiet]

Shame property is more valued than human life

What, the long hard hours I spent working to earn the money to buy my bike is worth less than someone else's? That's time deducted from MY life that someone is taking.

So yeah, personal property IS worth the same, if not more imo.

Let him rot in prison.