Manchester - Female cyclist pushed into canal by man

[Time Waster]

The dog looked perfectly fine to me

not worried or likely to do anything - just checking what his owner was doing

and in no risk

those dogs worry a lot and that one was not worried
but we still do not have any evidence that the bloke pushed her - or whatever

I mean - I would take her word for it to an extent - but her saying so is no proof

My experience of Alsations or GSD types of dogs is that if they are not relaxed they let you know about it pretty clearly in a fear agression response. That dog was 100% calm and taking instruction from the owner (the check back by the dog. It was reacting in a calm and controlled way on its own and took now cues from the man in that it did not react. I think such a dog if not relaxed would have reacted with fear agression IF it took a nervous cue from the owners. The man I do not think was worried for or about his dog. That is on the man as I do believe he has a problem with sharing that sort of path with cyclists. The dog however did not get his reaction which to the dogs credit IMHO.

The dog was never the issue there but I do accept that not everyone understands dogs that well. I know people who have been dog owners for decades who do not have good understanding. I would not worry about being on a bike near that dog I reckon as it was there. However I am a big male and sometimes a breed like that does react more to me as a bigger threat to it. I do find that GSDs do show fear agression to me more than for most people. However I do know how to calm dogs about 70 odd percent succesfully. I have surprised owners of a dog I have befriended on a footpath (not with a bike or my dog) when they tell me that the dog is a nervous one and does not like / trust men. Despite that I give GSDs a bit of space if they show anything close to fear aggression. Not all teeth and thunder is true agression, not that it is relevant here with that dog.

BTW I do not take anyone's word for it. I do not take the video as worth anything other than proof of who was there and that the woman was in the water at the end. I would also not take the video for assessing the speed of the cyclist. I also do not feel you can be certain she stopped too late or about right from the video. I do not think it is much use as evidence of much more than the basics. Cyclist, dog, man, woman, stopped cyclist calm dog and cyclist in the water. Anyone who gets more from that is projecting their own perceptions onto it.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

One thing I did notice was that the man was walking on the left (from the camera view) with the dog on the right just in front
The woman with him was directly behind the dog
and the cyclist was also on the right approaching the man

There was no other room on the path
and yet the man - who could clearly see the cyclist - made no attempt to move over out of the way
he just stayed directly in front of the cyclist blocking her way

this is not what I normally see when I ride my bike on similar paths
people normally move over as you approach

so his attitude was dodgy and dominant from the start

which is not normal

as said just above - the dog was not worried - glanced back to check where the man was just to check - not in the least worried

The bloke was in a bad mood
I suspect he had had a bad encounter with another cyclist or women just before and WAS NOT going to give way do a any damn cyclist or woman again

 

[straas]

I've had a very similar type intentionally step into my path on a wide canal path (bridgewater) to stop me.

The amount of 'yeah it's bad BUT' in this thread is staggering. I think the cyclist would get partial blame here even if they'd stopped, doffed their cap and profusely apologised for existing.

 

[Drago]

I've had a very similar type intentionally step into my path on a wide canal path (bridgewater) to stop me.

Yes, I had it abit a decade ago on the Grand Union. I offered the offender a choice of a swimming lesson or a court appearance (I was still in the job) and the coward backed down.

Stare bullies right in the face and give them hell every time.

 

[Webbo2]

I heard recently of someone’s 80 year old father being told he couldn’t cycle along side the Pocklington canal. He replied with a question about the persons ability to swim.

 

[T4tomo]

I've had a very similar type intentionally step into my path on a wide canal path (bridgewater) to stop me.

We had an old lady brandishing a canal lock key yelling "dismount, dismount" at us.

She had got worked into a state as there was a semi organised gravel ride taking in a bit of towpath, so I could understand her frustration as she'd have already had 20 -30 bikes go past, and no doubt with varying degrees of accommodation of other tow-path users
We'd already slowed up in any event and I just gave her a cheery "good morning, I think there is enough room for all of us on this shared space" and carried on. She didn't lamp anyone.

There is a tendency out there for people to get overly worked up about what other people are doing that doesn't really effect them greatly

Just as on here, certain users get worked up if other users don't see things exactly as they do, or have a different opinion on things.

 

[Drago]

Frustrated or otherwise, unless signposted to the contrary the CRT permit cycling on the towpath.

Finding it a bit inconvenient or simply not liking it is no justification no get arsey with riders behaving lawfully and sensibly.

 

[Vantage]

No we can't.

Please tell me exactly why you think the cyclist was "Damn well wrong here".

I genuinely could not see that she did ANYTHING wrong at all.

I've said in a previous post that it looks like she didn't brake till the last moment. She left 3 or 3 feet between the dog walker and herself which I agree isn't a staggeringly short distance but it could easily have been more if she'd braked earlier and not spooked them.
Her cycling caused alarm to the walkers. That should never happen.
Regarding his behaviour, he might just have a short fuse. There's plenty about these days...myself included

 

[Animo]

https://road.cc/content/news/dog-walker-denies-pushing-female-cyclist-canal-315351

 

[potsy]

One of the comments on FB

 

[fossyant]

No smoke and all that !

 

[T4tomo]

I assume the cyclist posted the footage online somewhere before going to the police, which is how it made it to the press. if ypou actually want it to go to court, you don't prejudice it by doing this.

 

[mjr]

How is that dog behaving out of control or even not in control?

I don't know, as that's not what I wrote. I wrote that it was not in close control, which is what the CRT code says. In that clip, it's wandered off ahead, doing what it pleases, with glances back to see if it's being told to stop. It's being allowed to lead its pack, basically. That ain't close control and those in my family that own dogs would be putting theirs on the lead if they behaved like that on a towpath or open farmland.

It was better behaved than the man!!

True. The man seems to be out of control!

There is no rule that says a lead is the only way to control a dog and indeed putting a lead on a dog can result in a totally different behaviour from the dog that is possibly worse than the same dog without a lead.

Indeed. Some dogs can remain under close control without a lead, but a short fixed lead is the only way certain to be regarded as such, so if a dog won't behave as if on a short lead, then it probably needs to be put on one. In fact, even some leads aren't sufficient to be under close control: dog on a long unlocked bungee lead that won't return when called isn't under close control either.

So IMHO that dog is under control and it was not the issue here. IMHO the man was and to some extent the decisions made by the cyclist was too. That does not deserve dunking but similarly how do we know that the dunking was really due to a push and not a simple imbalance on the cyclist's part. It is easy to lose balance astride a bike when you are wheeling it along that way.

Agree that it wasn't about the dog. Also, I agree that we don't know for sure (and I didn't say that we did), but the most probable reason is a push, and I understand that her falling into the water to avoid a punch would also be assault.

[...] I do not think the woman has done anything wrong I just think she has not done it the best way.

Maybe not, but it was perfectly acceptable and who does everything the best way every time? I suspect that even if she had done everything the best way possible, an assault was still going to happen. It could even have been worse: if she stopped early and on the hedge side, maybe he would have charged her into the hedge and then kept on striking her, with her not being able to escape into the water.

[...] Conflict is not necessarily the result of a cyclist / pedestrian interaction on a canal towpath. It is possible this might not have happened if things were done differently by the man and the woman cyclist.

It's possible, but we've little evidence to suggest it was likely with that man, so now who's making unsupported assumptions?

 

[Drago]

One of the comments on FB

View attachment 782821

Well, if he commited a violent offence while on bail for a violence offence he ought to be remanded and modelling wedding dresses for Bubba.

Mind you, its is Facebook, which is only a slightly more credible and impartial news source than the Guardian or the Mail.

 

[DCLane]

He's decided to give an interview [Daily Mail link] although his story doesn't quite match the video. Hopefully the police take some action.