Manchester - Female cyclist pushed into canal by man

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I would point out that talking about things the cyclist could have done better is a long way from justifying the acts of the guy. That is assuming he did push her and that is an assumption based on her ending up in the canal and saying that was a push that put her there, we wil have to wait to find out what the truth is IF the guy is caught and the police actually do anything.

All I know for certain is I have never had this issue on a towpath but I am 2m tall, male and lived in a north Lancashire town at the time. This is Manchester is it not? Say no more!!! :laugh: PreferLiverpool anyway, they have the better teams too!
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
What is the dialogue exactly:

Him: Slow Down
Her: .......Dog
Him: yeah, you're on a bike you effing idiot

What does she say before dog?

Also, I could they really get a prosecution if he just said, she lost her balance as she tried to squeeze by on the edge. I know it seems almost certain she was pushed given the verbal altercation and his body language but there was no push caught on camera and she would have been squeezing right on the edge given the space available.

It highlights the need for real cycle infrastructure. South Manchester and Salford are making strides but north and east Manchester is miles behind.

That was my point early, no way will they get a conviction (or arguably even charge) unless there is another witness / more evidence as whilst it appears very likely, there is no evidence he pushed her rather than she over balanced.

It will be her word against his, and the lady, presumably his partner, shown in the clip
 

Drago

Legendary Member
It will be her word against his, and the lady, presumably his partner, shown in the clip
Indeed.

Her word against his, no corroborating evidence. Provided he denies it the matter doesn't meet the threshold for charging.

It seems doubtful he'd cough it or the partner would have a sudden attack of righteous public spiritedness.
 
Indeed.

Her word against his, no corroborating evidence. Provided he denies it the matter doesn't meet the threshold for charging.

It seems doubtful he'd cough it or the partner would have a sudden attack of righteous public spiritedness.

The lack of other known witnesses is a problem

without that we - well me certainly - are falling into the trap of assuming she is telling the truth

she could easily have fallen in as he walked past just by leaning a bit too far over
which is why I always try to stop on the hedge side if I can

and we also only have her word that they just walked off and never looked back

so - based on the evidence presented - there is no chance of any prosecution

and she might be lying for effect
 

Vantage

Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
The dog walker has no excuse for his actions but I can understand his anger. We dog owners are very protective of our doggies.
The cyclist had plenty of time in which to pull over and let them walk by. Instead she carried on at speed and didn't brake until the last moment. There was no gradual slowing down that I could see.
I'm seeing more and more cyclists with no clue or care to ride safely and courteously.
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
We dog owners are very protective of our doggies.

You should all upgrade to a horse, any sensible cyclist stays well clear of a ton of unpredictable animal.

i once was nearly taken out by a labrador, because a feckless owner decided that the point where I was about to be between her and the dog she'd previously been ignoring , was precisely the right to to summon it to her. :laugh:
 
I have come across some dog owners that deliberately don;t call their dog because once you call the dog they often react in exactly the wrong way

turning to stand directly across the whole path is a common one for well behaved dogs

my main problem with dog is the ones with the dog on the end of a long lead
and an idiot on the other end

best way with a long lead - unless the dog is sensible and well trained - is for the owner to walk towards the dog - or at least to the same side
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The dog walker has no excuse for his actions but I can understand his anger. We dog owners are very protective of our doggies.
The cyclist had plenty of time in which to pull over and let them walk by. Instead she carried on at speed and didn't brake until the last moment. There was no gradual slowing down that I could see.
I'm seeing more and more cyclists with no clue or care to ride safely and courteously.
Top victim-blaming and assault-excsing there!

If he was protective of his dog, he'd have it under close control, like the CRT code says. The old bargemen wouldn't have hesitated to hook a loose dog like that into the water before it troubled their horse, so the owner should be thankful he only has to watch for cyclists these days!
 

Vantage

Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
Top victim-blaming and assault-excsing there!

If he was protective of his dog, he'd have it under close control, like the CRT code says. The old bargemen wouldn't have hesitated to hook a loose dog like that into the water before it troubled their horse, so the owner should be thankful he only has to watch for cyclists these days!

The dog is right next to him. ;)
It is on us as the faster moving traffic to be on the lookout for dog walkers and the general public out for a bit of peace and quiet. Easy 🙂
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The dog is right next to him. ;)
Yes, and it runs off forwards. It's not under close control, despite it being right next to him.

It is on us as the faster moving traffic to be on the lookout for dog walkers and the general public out for a bit of peace and quiet. Easy 🙂
The cyclist stopped and made no contact with the dog, staying as far away from it as the path reasonably allowed at that point. Still she ended up in the canal. I don't think it had much to do with the dog, or that the man was "out for a bit of peace and quiet". It's probably more down to the acceptability of bike-bashing in our country now and it's pretty worrying that even other cyclists empathise with this man for being a dog owner, more than their victim.
 
The dog looked perfectly fine to me

not worried or likely to do anything - just checking what his owner was doing

and in no risk

those dogs worry a lot and that one was not worried
but we still do not have any evidence that the bloke pushed her - or whatever

I mean - I would take her word for it to an extent - but her saying so is no proof
 

Vantage

Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
Yes, and it runs off forwards. It's not under close control, despite it being right next to him.


The cyclist stopped and made no contact with the dog, staying as far away from it as the path reasonably allowed at that point. Still she ended up in the canal. I don't think it had much to do with the dog, or that the man was "out for a bit of peace and quiet". It's probably more down to the acceptability of bike-bashing in our country now and it's pretty worrying that even other cyclists empathise with this man for being a dog owner, more than their victim.

I'm not empathising with anyone. If he pushes the lady into the canal then he deserves to be punished and it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but you are defending the cyclist who we can all see, was damn well in the wrong here. You seem to be one of these "Oh we'll stick up for the cyclist just because they're a cyclist" types. She didn't stop in time at all. If she did, the dog walker probably wouldn't have been annoyed about her trying to push past, which is what she did. She didn't pull over to the side and let them past which is what she should have done either. Are you honestly going to argue that pedestrians don't have priority over cyclists? :laugh:
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
I'm not empathising with anyone. If he pushes the lady into the canal then he deserves to be punished and it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but you are defending the cyclist who we can all see, was damn well in the wrong here.
No we can't.

Please tell me exactly why you think the cyclist was "Damn well wrong here".

I genuinely could not see that she did ANYTHING wrong at all.

You seem to be one of these "Oh we'll stick up for the cyclist just because they're a cyclist" types. She didn't stop in time at all.
Yes she did. She stopped several feet in front of both the pedestrians and the dog.

If she did, the dog walker probably wouldn't have been annoyed about her trying to push past, which is what she did.
I suggest you watch the video again.

She did not attempt to get past him until *after* he started behaving aggressively towards her.

She didn't pull over to the side and let them past which is what she should have done either. Are you honestly going to argue that pedestrians don't have priority over cyclists? :laugh:
Pedestrians certainly have priority over cyclists.

But she did nothing wrong. She did not get in their way, and there was plenty of room for her to get round them. There was no need for her to pull over to the side to let them past.
 
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Top victim-blaming and assault-excsing there!

If he was protective of his dog, he'd have it under close control, like the CRT code says. The old bargemen wouldn't have hesitated to hook a loose dog like that into the water before it troubled their horse, so the owner should be thankful he only has to watch for cyclists these days!
How is that dog behaving out of control or even not in control? It was better behaved than the man!! There is no rule that says a lead is the only way to control a dog and indeed putting a lead on a dog can result in a totally different behaviour from the dog that is possibly worse than the same dog without a lead.

For example, a well trained dog that is used to being off the lead on such a towpath and has experience of other users on here might have a tendency to check for cues from the owner as to where to be. Or they might just stand still and wait for the cyclist to pass. Our dog always used to see a cyclist and freeze then as it sees which way the rider is going it then moves past the cyclist giving as much space as possible and to get past the cyclist quickly. She does that with other dogs too. IF we stopper her when that same cyclist approached and put a lead on her then she would not be relaxed but on a kind of higher alert. She picks that up from the very action of putting a lead on when normally I would not need to or actually do.

So IMHO that dog is under control and it was not the issue here. IMHO the man was and to some extent the decisions made by the cyclist was too. That does not deserve dunking but similarly how do we know that the dunking was really due to a push and not a simple imbalance on the cyclist's part. It is easy to lose balance astride a bike when you are wheeling it along that way.

Imagine if there was a following cyclist filming and caught it as not a push but a stumble. Totally theoretical but think about it that original video is not conclusive of anything other than cyclist met a couple with a dog, some words were exchanged and the woman went into the water. Without a witness or other video there is not a case to answer and to go all defensive over the poor woman cyclist and jumping to conclusions is not getting us anywhere.

Perhaps look to what we can see and the video proves. What has each party actually and evidentially done that was right and less right. I do not think the woman has done anything wrong I just think she has not done it the best way. As I said earlier she could have stopped earlier to let them walk to her and past her. She could have gone more to the hedge side so the water was less likely to be the end result for her, no matter how that might have happend. She could have got off her bike as soon as she realised the guy was reacting. Although an earlier stop might have meant he did not react, we do not know for certain as people have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he is a nutter who pushed a poor cyclist into the water. There is what is right and there is what it better or best. Conflict is not necessarily the result of a cyclist / pedestrian interaction on a canal towpath. It is possible this might not have happened if things were done differently by the man and the woman cyclist.
 
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