Manchester - Female cyclist pushed into canal by man

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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The dog walker has no excuse for his actions but I can understand his anger. We dog owners are very protective of our doggies.
The cyclist had plenty of time in which to pull over and let them walk by. Instead she carried on at speed and didn't brake until the last moment. There was no gradual slowing down that I could see.
I'm seeing more and more cyclists with no clue or care to ride safely and courteously.
Top victim-blaming and assault-excsing there!

If he was protective of his dog, he'd have it under close control, like the CRT code says. The old bargemen wouldn't have hesitated to hook a loose dog like that into the water before it troubled their horse, so the owner should be thankful he only has to watch for cyclists these days!
 

Vantage

Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
Top victim-blaming and assault-excsing there!

If he was protective of his dog, he'd have it under close control, like the CRT code says. The old bargemen wouldn't have hesitated to hook a loose dog like that into the water before it troubled their horse, so the owner should be thankful he only has to watch for cyclists these days!

The dog is right next to him. ;)
It is on us as the faster moving traffic to be on the lookout for dog walkers and the general public out for a bit of peace and quiet. Easy 🙂
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The dog is right next to him. ;)
Yes, and it runs off forwards. It's not under close control, despite it being right next to him.

It is on us as the faster moving traffic to be on the lookout for dog walkers and the general public out for a bit of peace and quiet. Easy 🙂
The cyclist stopped and made no contact with the dog, staying as far away from it as the path reasonably allowed at that point. Still she ended up in the canal. I don't think it had much to do with the dog, or that the man was "out for a bit of peace and quiet". It's probably more down to the acceptability of bike-bashing in our country now and it's pretty worrying that even other cyclists empathise with this man for being a dog owner, more than their victim.
 
The dog looked perfectly fine to me

not worried or likely to do anything - just checking what his owner was doing

and in no risk

those dogs worry a lot and that one was not worried
but we still do not have any evidence that the bloke pushed her - or whatever

I mean - I would take her word for it to an extent - but her saying so is no proof
 

Vantage

Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
Yes, and it runs off forwards. It's not under close control, despite it being right next to him.


The cyclist stopped and made no contact with the dog, staying as far away from it as the path reasonably allowed at that point. Still she ended up in the canal. I don't think it had much to do with the dog, or that the man was "out for a bit of peace and quiet". It's probably more down to the acceptability of bike-bashing in our country now and it's pretty worrying that even other cyclists empathise with this man for being a dog owner, more than their victim.

I'm not empathising with anyone. If he pushes the lady into the canal then he deserves to be punished and it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but you are defending the cyclist who we can all see, was damn well in the wrong here. You seem to be one of these "Oh we'll stick up for the cyclist just because they're a cyclist" types. She didn't stop in time at all. If she did, the dog walker probably wouldn't have been annoyed about her trying to push past, which is what she did. She didn't pull over to the side and let them past which is what she should have done either. Are you honestly going to argue that pedestrians don't have priority over cyclists? :laugh:
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
I'm not empathising with anyone. If he pushes the lady into the canal then he deserves to be punished and it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but you are defending the cyclist who we can all see, was damn well in the wrong here.
No we can't.

Please tell me exactly why you think the cyclist was "Damn well wrong here".

I genuinely could not see that she did ANYTHING wrong at all.

You seem to be one of these "Oh we'll stick up for the cyclist just because they're a cyclist" types. She didn't stop in time at all.
Yes she did. She stopped several feet in front of both the pedestrians and the dog.

If she did, the dog walker probably wouldn't have been annoyed about her trying to push past, which is what she did.
I suggest you watch the video again.

She did not attempt to get past him until *after* he started behaving aggressively towards her.

She didn't pull over to the side and let them past which is what she should have done either. Are you honestly going to argue that pedestrians don't have priority over cyclists? :laugh:
Pedestrians certainly have priority over cyclists.

But she did nothing wrong. She did not get in their way, and there was plenty of room for her to get round them. There was no need for her to pull over to the side to let them past.
 
Top victim-blaming and assault-excsing there!

If he was protective of his dog, he'd have it under close control, like the CRT code says. The old bargemen wouldn't have hesitated to hook a loose dog like that into the water before it troubled their horse, so the owner should be thankful he only has to watch for cyclists these days!
How is that dog behaving out of control or even not in control? It was better behaved than the man!! There is no rule that says a lead is the only way to control a dog and indeed putting a lead on a dog can result in a totally different behaviour from the dog that is possibly worse than the same dog without a lead.

For example, a well trained dog that is used to being off the lead on such a towpath and has experience of other users on here might have a tendency to check for cues from the owner as to where to be. Or they might just stand still and wait for the cyclist to pass. Our dog always used to see a cyclist and freeze then as it sees which way the rider is going it then moves past the cyclist giving as much space as possible and to get past the cyclist quickly. She does that with other dogs too. IF we stopper her when that same cyclist approached and put a lead on her then she would not be relaxed but on a kind of higher alert. She picks that up from the very action of putting a lead on when normally I would not need to or actually do.

So IMHO that dog is under control and it was not the issue here. IMHO the man was and to some extent the decisions made by the cyclist was too. That does not deserve dunking but similarly how do we know that the dunking was really due to a push and not a simple imbalance on the cyclist's part. It is easy to lose balance astride a bike when you are wheeling it along that way.

Imagine if there was a following cyclist filming and caught it as not a push but a stumble. Totally theoretical but think about it that original video is not conclusive of anything other than cyclist met a couple with a dog, some words were exchanged and the woman went into the water. Without a witness or other video there is not a case to answer and to go all defensive over the poor woman cyclist and jumping to conclusions is not getting us anywhere.

Perhaps look to what we can see and the video proves. What has each party actually and evidentially done that was right and less right. I do not think the woman has done anything wrong I just think she has not done it the best way. As I said earlier she could have stopped earlier to let them walk to her and past her. She could have gone more to the hedge side so the water was less likely to be the end result for her, no matter how that might have happend. She could have got off her bike as soon as she realised the guy was reacting. Although an earlier stop might have meant he did not react, we do not know for certain as people have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he is a nutter who pushed a poor cyclist into the water. There is what is right and there is what it better or best. Conflict is not necessarily the result of a cyclist / pedestrian interaction on a canal towpath. It is possible this might not have happened if things were done differently by the man and the woman cyclist.
 
The dog looked perfectly fine to me

not worried or likely to do anything - just checking what his owner was doing

and in no risk

those dogs worry a lot and that one was not worried
but we still do not have any evidence that the bloke pushed her - or whatever

I mean - I would take her word for it to an extent - but her saying so is no proof
My experience of Alsations or GSD types of dogs is that if they are not relaxed they let you know about it pretty clearly in a fear agression response. That dog was 100% calm and taking instruction from the owner (the check back by the dog. It was reacting in a calm and controlled way on its own and took now cues from the man in that it did not react. I think such a dog if not relaxed would have reacted with fear agression IF it took a nervous cue from the owners. The man I do not think was worried for or about his dog. That is on the man as I do believe he has a problem with sharing that sort of path with cyclists. The dog however did not get his reaction which to the dogs credit IMHO.

The dog was never the issue there but I do accept that not everyone understands dogs that well. I know people who have been dog owners for decades who do not have good understanding. I would not worry about being on a bike near that dog I reckon as it was there. However I am a big male and sometimes a breed like that does react more to me as a bigger threat to it. I do find that GSDs do show fear agression to me more than for most people. However I do know how to calm dogs about 70 odd percent succesfully. I have surprised owners of a dog I have befriended on a footpath (not with a bike or my dog) when they tell me that the dog is a nervous one and does not like / trust men. Despite that I give GSDs a bit of space if they show anything close to fear aggression. Not all teeth and thunder is true agression, not that it is relevant here with that dog.

BTW I do not take anyone's word for it. I do not take the video as worth anything other than proof of who was there and that the woman was in the water at the end. I would also not take the video for assessing the speed of the cyclist. I also do not feel you can be certain she stopped too late or about right from the video. I do not think it is much use as evidence of much more than the basics. Cyclist, dog, man, woman, stopped cyclist calm dog and cyclist in the water. Anyone who gets more from that is projecting their own perceptions onto it.
 
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