I can't believe the amount of victim blaming in this thread. Having watched the video it all happened very quickly she didn't have any time to think about it. That thug was looking for trouble. The dog was off lead and not in anyway controlled. It no doubt wouldn't have been well trained either. He clearly intended to push her in as he approached her. Nothing she could have done would have made much difference to the outcome. A sad indictment on our society that such people think they can behave like that and get away with it.
Manchester - Female cyclist pushed into canal by man
- Thread starter wiggydiggy
- Start date
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Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
I can only see one post which is in any way "victim blaming" (He says he isn't, but that is irrelevant).
Which is post #4 in the thread.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
But need not have happened so quickly if she'd stopped and pulled aside a short distance ahead.
She did not deserve to be assaulted. Technically she did nothing wrong either.
The physical reality is nevertheless that the path is only so wide and with a potentially deadly medium to one side if it goes wrong, so cycling right up to oncoming peds and expecting to be able to squeeze through on the bike shows questionable judgement of both time and avaiable space. Nevertheless, a misjudgement is not deserving of an assault.
lazybloke
Ginger biscuits and cheddar
- Location
- Leafy Surrey
Seems unanimous that the pedestrian us a thug. Nothing excuses that behaviour.
Saying the cyclist could approach the situation more cooperatively is just a matter of courtesy, not victim-blaming.
Saying the cyclist could approach the situation more cooperatively is just a matter of courtesy, not victim-blaming.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
It's a legal cycle route and used by cycle commuters so won't have been the only cyclist that passed the man
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
Look the guy was a lout and needs catching but there are lessons to be learned here. First off she is not the most vulnerable in terms of road use (I know it is not a road but heirachy of vulnerability here). The pedestrians and the dog especially are. People with dogs are protective as are people with kids. So whilst she did not do anything wrong she did not do the best thing to avoid aggro.
This is not about victim blaming but about realising there are such problematic people out there like the guy who pushed her. Sooner or later in towns and cities you will encounter them. How to cope and plan ahead is more important than getting somewhere or cycling your bike. After the fact it is better to learn from the situation than just complaining and dicussing the guy's actions which nobody thinks was anywhere close to being acceptable. We cannot change others but we can learn from others and what situations they get into. That is what my point is. Perhaps the above points might prevent someone reading them and taking them onboard from a similar confrontation. IDK if that will happen but discussing the situation from what that woman should or could have done is positive as it is trying to learn and find ways to cope with the abuse and assault that could happen to one of us.
- First off that is a narrow path and I do wonder whether it is a legal cycle route or not. So first thing is whether she would have been better off taking another route.
- Second, she could have stopped earlier and let them approach her and pass her. Stopping earlier than neccessary is a good idea as IME it reduces negativity and even potentially increases positivity between you as the cyclist and the pedestrians / dog.
- Thirdly she could have put herself to the hedge side especially as a non-swimmer. A push into the hedge might have hurt but it is not a push into water which you as a non-swimmer need help to get out of.
- Finally getting off your bike is a faff but it does diffuse situations of conflict with pedestrians and puts you in a more balanced state to deal with a push. Putting your bike between you and the dog/ person too helps perhaps.
I do know that if I had encountered a towpath like that I would have looked for another way. That is me. IF there was no other way my points above would be my course of action.
BTW in covid lockdown times my son got knocked over by a male runner on our local towpath. Fortunately he fell onto the edge of the bank and not into the canal but it was close. He was 7 I think at the time and a fraction of the guy's weight. At that time there were signs put up telling cyclists to take care of pedestrians and use the towpath considerately. The truth was that cyclist did but the ultra fit male types who were running a lot more as the gyms and sports clubs were closed were the issue. The ultra fit just ran past people like they were not there or had to get out of their way. It would not surprise me if this also described the attitude of this thug too. Covid lockdown times produced a lot of positivity but also brought out the total daffodils like those runners we encountered.
BTW if I he had been running towards my direction (a little ahead of my son and partner) then that guy would have been in the canal and having to get past me to get out!! Unfortunately he was running away faster than I could manage. I think that is along the lines of the Drago approach.
Firstly it is a canal towpath and looking on teh Canal and River Trust I found this
We welcome all considerate cyclists to our towpaths and you don't need a permit.
so every canal towpath under their control - which is most of them - are by default cycle paths
BUT - cyclists do have to give way to walkers and other more vulnerable users
But she did - she stopped
as far as getting off and pushing is concerned - I generally find this takes up more room widthe wise
there is me - then the bike with its handlebars and pedals etc
so me stopping against the hedge means I can lean the bike into the hedge - this takes up less room than be standing besdie the bike in a narrow space
Yes - I agree that her speed looked a bit higher than I would have been doing - or at least she didn;t slow down as much as I would as early as I would
but she did slow down - and stopped
as far as the hedge side is concerned - I would certainly stop on the hedge side - and if I couldn;t swim then doubly so
(although most canals a shallow so you can just stand up - assuming you are conscious etc)
but she is a woman facing a situation with a strange man - I can see that being trapped against the hedge might seem like a bad idea in the initial moment
so I think she could have slowed down earlier but I am not all that sure it would have made much difference - the guy is aggressive and saw her as weak so the slightest thing he could consider as an insult would have the same effect
OP
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wiggydiggy
Legendary Member
Just from his body language my spider sense would be going off. It escalated from shouting about his dog to violence in a few seconds, thats not the actions of a normal person. Normally if I'm approaching a person and an animal side by side I aim for the person as the animal won't move unless called, and there is no guarantee they will be, but on this occasion I think I would have aimed for the dog.
I remember once I had to do an emergency stop as on a shared path as an approaching person made no attempt to stop their off lead dog running across my path, they then immediately escalated to shouting at me as if I am responsible for controlling their dog.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
Good point
she might have been reacting to the "all cyclists" concept and the previous one was built like Drago (etc) but riding like a idiot
and he couldn;t do anything
then she came along and got the reaction caused by the previous guy
still totally unacceptable
I would bet Drago's ex colleague have a file on him!
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
Just checked this on the Daily Mail website
OK - it is the DM
but apparently ALL cyclists deserve this and NO cyclist should be allowed on any path of any kind ever
and we are all evil and in league with the Devil (other evil deities are available)
or so it seems from the general tone of many of the comments
sometime I just look on there - just to see the other side of sanity
OK - it is the DM
but apparently ALL cyclists deserve this and NO cyclist should be allowed on any path of any kind ever
and we are all evil and in league with the Devil (other evil deities are available)
or so it seems from the general tone of many of the comments
sometime I just look on there - just to see the other side of sanity
OP
OP
wiggydiggy
Legendary Member
Never read the comments lol
T4tomo
Legendary Member
The dog was off the lead, but it was under control. We assume the lady was pushed in, but we only have a dialy mail article to "prove" that, the video doesn't show how she fell, in she could have lost her balance trying to scoot around him.
We do know the bloke was being a bit of a knob. wouldnt surprise me if he deliberately walks down there at commuter time and tries to get in everyone's way!
the benefit of hindsight is that she should have stopped against the hedge well short of the pedestrians /animals and allowed them to pass her.
OP
OP
wiggydiggy
Legendary Member
Its not just an assumption based on an article, shes made a police statement which she said she was pushed. The police are investigating. If they find him, and he denies it, then further investigation will be needed but for now I believe her.
Its also reported like that here: https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ews/mum-traumatised-after-dog-walker-32200394
steveindenmark
Legendary Member
Just before the tree there was a place on the right where I would have stopped and waited.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
In hindsight, yes. TBH, I used to commute down there much faster than she was going. Only stopped doing it daily as the mud was eating drive chains and brake pads at an alarming rate. I'd never had any issues - come to think of it it may be on the Ashton canal near a bit known on strava as "dog poo alley" I think, or I used to call it that. The majority of the Ashton canal is surfaced.
Whether you would have waited or she should have waited, he pushed her in the canal which is at least GBH. Just how do you justify that. Whatever his beef his resulting behaviour is completely inexcusable and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their bumps feeling.
