Max heart rate

[Dadam]

I'm 53 and been cycling fairly regularly for a few years. Before then I didn't get a lot of exercise. Nowadays, while not as a fit as I should be, I reckon I'm fitter than the average middle age bloke with a sedentary job.

The formula to determine the max seems to be 220 minus your age, which would put me around 167. The problem is when I'm cycling I spend long periods up in the 180s. As soon as there's a hint of a hill it goes right up there and often doesn't drop below 160 until I stop. Some hills I simply couldn't get up without going over 170 even in granny gears and keeping below it would pretty much rule me out of cycling as I'm surrounded by them.

I also have a mild form of atrial fibrillation, but it's not all the time, just occasionally. Usually times of mental or emotional stress or just random. It does not usually come on when exercising. I'm not on any medication and when discussing with the cardiologist he didn't advise taking particular care not to let it get too high. His general feeling was a bit of cardio would be a good thing.

I've just got an ebike (Orbea Gain) and I've not noticed any reduction, I'm just faster up the hills! I feel like I've got to keep spinning to get the assistance so might as well dig in.

So should I be dialling it down a bit, or is it ok just keep within what feels comfortable?

 

[Deleted member 1258]

The formula is flawed I wouldn't take to much notice of it.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The formula is flawed I wouldn't take to much notice of it.

The formula isn’t flawed, it was not produced for working out an individual’s max HR. It’s the misappropriation that’s the problem.

 

[ColinJ]

Forget the formula - It is one of those those things that works for some people but not for others! (@dave r just beat me to it!)

180s IS pretty high for someone in their 50s, but if it isn't causing you any problems then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Do watch out for that AF though! I started suffering from it off and on after health issues 10 years ago. I can set it off if I push myself too hard on the bike. I'm talking about the last 5% or so of effort. I can go up steep hills slowly but if I tried to race up them then I would often get myself into trouble.

Obviously, if you start to have problems then you are overdoing it.

You've got me wondering how high MY heart rate can go these days. 30 years ago it was around 200 bpm, but it must be way down from that now. I might put some batteries in my old HRM and see if it still works...

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I might put some batteries in my old HRM Pace Maker

FTFY

 

[Jameshow]

Forget the formula - It is one of those those things that works for some people but not for others! (@dave r just beat me to it!)

180s IS pretty high for someone in their 50s, but if it isn't causing you any problems then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Do watch out for that AF though! I started suffering from it off and on after health issues 10 years ago. I can set it off if I push myself too hard on the bike. I'm talking about the last 5% or so of effort. I can go up steep hills slowly but if I tried to race up them then I would often get myself into trouble.

Obviously, if you start to have problems then you are overdoing it.

You've got me wondering how high MY heart rate can go these days. 30 years ago it was around 200 bpm, but it must be way down from that now. I might put some batteries in my old HRM and see if it still works...

What do you need to do if you do go into AF might be worth knowing if you go into it on a ride?

I have family history of AF to watching closely.

 

[ColinJ]

What do you need to do if you do go into AF might be worth knowing if you go into it on a ride?

I have family history of AF to watching closely.

A friend who suffers from bouts of AF swears by the Valsalva manoeuvre. I have tried it and not had much luck with it but I just read about a modified version where you lie down after blowing and elevate your legs. That is supposed to be much more effective. I'll give that a go next time.

The AF that I have experienced was fairly mild, but still not pleasant - a fluttery rhythm rather than one going completely crazy.

 

[biggs682]

I normally see a max in the 160's on my rides

 

[Dadam]

The AF that I have experienced was fairly mild, but still not pleasant - a fluttery rhythm rather than one going completely crazy.

That's pretty much like mine, fluttery. What I do is sit down, try to relax, breathe deep. Interesting you mention the Valsalva. I take a moderate breath, hold it, then squeeze the diaphragm as if trying to exhale but hold it in for a second or two. A couple of those seems to settle it...usually.

 

[stephec]

I ran a 10k race today, not exactly flat out, and at 53 years old had an average bpm of 167.

 

[Dadam]

RHR averages around 50.
All of this assumes my Garmin vivoactive watch is reading accurately of course!

 

[presta]

should I be dialling it down a bit

Yes.

I also have a mild form of atrial fibrillation

Did that start before or after you started the exercise? A history of chronic endurance training increases the risk of developing AF ~5 fold.

the cardiologist he didn't advise taking particular care not to let it get too high

Cardiology never have accepted my AF is anything to do with exercise, despite me turning up on their doorstep in an ambulance 10 times after following their advice to resume exercise.

The formula isn’t flawed, it was not produced for working out an individual’s max HR. It’s the misappropriation that’s the problem.

Yes, it is a population average, but nevertheless my local hospital still use it as the limit on a Bruce test.

if it isn't causing you any problems then I wouldn't worry too much about it

Mine wasn't causing any problem right up to the point where it was, I got away with it for ~30 years

if you start to have problems.....

...it's too late.

A friend who suffers from bouts of AF swears by the Valsalva manoeuvre

I've tried to blow the plunger out of a syringe for the paramedics numerous times, I never managed to either force the plunger out or cardiovert. Drinking cold water was another suggestion I had from a GP, that's not going to work for me, hot/cold food/drink triggers my AF, one of the symptoms I noticed before diagnosis was the way my heart would race after drinking from the bottle on the bike.

I'd been getting runs of palpitations when I got into bed for years, but it wasn't until a few weeks after my first Bruce test in 2009 that I started seeing it on the bike. Ironically, I took the clear Bruce test as a green light to exercise even harder and ignored the HRM because I thought it was faulty. I went downhill fast after that, and found myself on an ambulance ride to an appointment with a diagnosis shortly after a second Bruce test in 2012.

Despite the facts of the matter, I never really did accept that my AF was preventing me from exercising, or give up hope of regaining my fitness and returning to cycling, but after years of trying to train as carefully as possible, all I succeeded in doing was making my health and fitness worse. In late 2019 I reflected on 7 years of losing fitness as I followed formal programs, and decided I might just as well go back to ad-hoc traing as I used to. That ranks as one of the worst decisions I've ever made, the effect was catastrophic, and I've not cycled at all since 1.4 20.

AF doesn't stop everybody from exercising though, my electrophysiologist will tell you he has patients who are olympic athletes, but you pay a high price if the gamble doesn't pay off.

The AF that I have experienced was fairly mild, but still not pleasant - a fluttery rhythm rather than one going completely crazy.

I thought a HR of 200+ was a hoot when I was diagnosed, but I don't now.

As soon as there's a hint of a hill it goes right up there and often doesn't drop below 160 until I stop. Some hills I simply couldn't get up without going over 170 even in granny gears

Been there, done that. My HR would shoot up at the slightest provocation then not come back down again, it's caused by chronic overtraining. What's your lying/standing HR like? Mine would go from ~42 laying down, to ~100 standing still, a rise of >30bpm is POTS.

I ran a 10k race today, not exactly flat out, and at 53 years old had an average bpm of 167.

That's as may be, but how fast does your HR return to normal when you stop?

"A greater reduction in heart rate after exercise during the reference period is associated with a higher level of cardiac fitness......Heart rates assessed during treadmill stress test that do not drop by more than 12 bpm one minute after stopping exercise (if cool-down period after exercise) or by more than 18 bpm one minute after stopping exercise (if no cool-down period and supine position as soon as possible) are associated with an increased risk of death."

 

[Deleted member 1258]

The formula isn’t flawed, it was not produced for working out an individual’s max HR. It’s the misappropriation that’s the problem.

https://www.castlehillfitness.com/fitness-training/dispelling-the-220-age-myth

 

[Dadam]

@presta
The AF first presented before I started cycling at all, and when I was doing very little exercise. I would hardly describe my activity as chronic endurance training. I cycle to work once or twice a week (<9 miles round tri) and occasional ride on a weekend.
I think I can rule out chronic overtraining as a cause in my case

 

[Dogtrousers]

I've always thought your max heart rate was just that - a personal maximum. The highest I ever regularly record mine (typically when struggling up steep hills) is roughly 13bpm higher than the 220-age formula. I'm not too worried by that. That may not be my absolute max, but it's the maximum I get when out cycling. Maybe I could go higher in some kind of lab test I don't know.

But beyond that, atrial fibrillation and scary sounding things like that - seek advice from your GP.