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Mechanical doping

Discussion in 'Pro Cycling (Road and Track Racing)' started by themosquitoking, 11 May 2015.

  1. oldroadman

    oldroadman Veteran

    Location:
    Ubique
    I did have a smile when it was suggested that heat detectors could be used from motos near the peloton. Just when the knee jerkers want to reduce motos, the same knee jerkers (or closely related ones) want to have MORE motos "alongside the peloton". I wonder if any of these people have ever seen/attended/taken part in a bike race at any level. certainly not in the Benelux countries, where smaller roads are a feature, and the idea of a moto "in/alongside the peloton" is not only daft but a practical impossibility, even if the riders didn't shove the ting off the road and into the nearest fertiliser covered field. Thus putting the unfortunates deep in the ......! ;)
     
  2. Marmion

    Marmion Guru

    On bike heat sensors are the answer. Better than on bike cameras, which are pish
     
  3. Foghat

    Foghat Veteran

    Why does it need more motos? Professional races already have several commissaires, riding pillion, close enough to the riders to be able to point a detector at them and view the thermal image on a handheld screen - they could easily do this job. The Stade 2 footage demonstrates that the detector doesn't have to be really close to the riders in order to discern enough to place a rider under suspicion. I dare say portable detectors with large enough screens to make sense of while on the back of a motorbike can be procured - modern technology is pretty damn capable - likewise ones with detection ranges optimised for the temperatures encountered on bikes in races. Maybe they'd need some customised panniers to store them in during less important phases of the race. I doubt if anything is insurmountable.

    Once detected, a suspicious bike could be radioed to the chief commissaire and race director, who could take measures to impound the bike immediately at the finish.

    Or if necessary they could enforce a bike or wheel change there and then and get the bike/wheel picked up by a following official mechanic in a van for an immediate roadside inspection and/or secure conveyance to the finish.

    Once the UCI has investigated and calibrated the detection system possibilities thoroughly, including testing real-world bike/motor/riding situations with affordable portable and suitably reliable/sensitive detectors, it will likely have a pretty decent understanding of the typical thermal image signatures for hidden bike motors and the degree of certainty of an incongruous heat source having doubtful provenance - meaning enforced bike/wheel changes would not necessarily be unreasonable in a race context. But clearly discretion would need to be exercised if the suspected discovery occurred at a critical point in the race - in which case the rider(s) could be allowed to proceed but carefully scrutinised to ensure no secret bike-switching takes place before being impounded. And if a motor is discovered in a roadside inspection following an enforced change during a race, then the entire team is immediately disqualified and instructed to withdraw from the race.

    Obviously a lot needs to be thought through by the UCI, and no doubt those who are so naïve as to think this cheating hasn't happened, or who object to the effort made to uncover it, will throw up 'obstacles' or find reasons to complain, but the UCI has to do something to maintain racing's credibility in light of van den Driessche and all the compelling circumstantial evidence. Laugh all you want, but a practical impossibility it almost certainly isn't - Greg Lemond thinks it's a good idea, and his opinions on such matters carry weight.
     
    Last edited: 23 Apr 2016
  4. deptfordmarmoset

    deptfordmarmoset Full time tea drinker

    Location:
    Armonmy Way
    Of course, if adopted and commissaires were given the job of using them, naughty riders and teams would immediately hire a camera and test to find out how long it takes for the motor to cool back to a normal level. That way they'd know that they'd have to use the motor when there's little or no chance of the commissaire passing alongside within, say, 2 minutes. One of the prime places for use would be on steep hills, particularly where roads can narrow and crowds get noisy. Static roadside cameras might manage to catch cheats or at least dissuade use in such locations.
     
  5. Foghat

    Foghat Veteran

    Indeed. And the static detectors could be on bikes too, leapfrogging the race and setting up at each place of choice (discreetly where possible) - of course, they wouldn't need to be mixing it with the riders the whole time, so no great increase in moto danger. Ditch a few media bikes if necessary to keep the moto numbers acceptable - after all, if hidden motors cripple racing's credibility, sponsors and media/pubic interest will likely be disappearing in much higher quantities.

    Whatever system is implemented will have weaknesses and won't detect every transgressor. But combine it with some very severe sanctions for the teams, and the deterrent effect will be not insignificant, particularly once the first few red-handed cheat discoveries are made.
     
    Last edited: 23 Apr 2016
  6. DP

    DP Chasse patate

    Location:
    Netherlands
  7. shouldbeinbed

    shouldbeinbed Rollin' along

    Location:
    Manchester way
    This one is a bit of a giveaway

    13076704_10209555242459827_185734707485457424_n.jpg
     
    Marmion, Sbudge, oldroadman and 4 others like this.
  8. deptfordmarmoset

    deptfordmarmoset Full time tea drinker

    Location:
    Armonmy Way
  9. Crackle

    Crackle Pah

    Location:
    Wirral
  10. deptfordmarmoset

    deptfordmarmoset Full time tea drinker

    Location:
    Armonmy Way
    Marmion likes this.
  11. HF2300

    HF2300 Insanity Prawn Boy

    deptfordmarmoset likes this.
  12. Flying_Monkey

    Flying_Monkey Toll Collector on the Road to Nowhere

    Be careful - no-one is accusing him of using a motor or anything, and you really need to read the background to this to understand what on earth is going in. It's actually even more of a farce than that story lets on:

    https://cyclingiq.com/2016/05/15/ev...nyuwangi-ijen-disqualification-doubts-linger/

    https://cyclingiq.com/2016/05/12/do-regulation-breaches-in-asia-tour-reveal-a-new-source-of-fraud/
     
    Crackle and Dogtrousers like this.
  13. HF2300

    HF2300 Insanity Prawn Boy

    Ah, well, be careful about being careful! I was just following @deptfordmarmoset comment about Pouly's 'spirited defence'. I said nothing about use of a motor, and I don't know that anyone else did - the only mention was the rule Pouly was said to have infringed, which looks like an error in the writing up anyway (and the fact it's in the mechanical doping thread.

    And I still think offering a defence of 'I just took an illegal bike guv' was an interesting defence...
     
    Flying_Monkey likes this.
  14. Flying_Monkey

    Flying_Monkey Toll Collector on the Road to Nowhere

    It's just a bizarre story - the whole race was very strangely officiated. And almost everything was officials trying to cover up their previous mistakes.
     
  15. HF2300

    HF2300 Insanity Prawn Boy

    Completely, but to be honest from other stuff I've read, nothing would surprise me in the world of Asian cycling.
     
    Flying_Monkey likes this.