Missing from radar screen - One Boeing 777

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hoopdriver

Guru
Location
East Sussex
I know first hand that the press don't care a s#!t about feelings and emotion no matter how big or small they are..........I hate them
That's a blanket assertion and not true. There are many caring people in the media but you tend not to notice them. It is usually the young 'go-getters' who commit these grotesque faux pas. They have no life experience and tend to regard 'stories' as just that - real time pieces of theatre.
 

Jason.T

Senior Member
That's a blanket assertion and not true. There are many caring people in the media but you tend not to notice them. It is usually the young 'go-getters' who commit these grotesque faux pas. They have no life experience and tend to regard 'stories' as just that - real time pieces of theatre.
My 3 month old daughter passed away last year.....it happened in our local town

2 days later we had a phone call from the local paper asking if they could print the story......we said no absolutely not

2 days after that they printed it anyway spread across the front page, my brother in law went to the papers offices to tell them how disgusting they were for printing it when asked not to.......the answer he got was tough it sells my paper......I hate them
 

asterix

Comrade Member
Location
Limoges or York
That's a blanket assertion and not true. There are many caring people in the media but you tend not to notice them. It is usually the young 'go-getters' who commit these grotesque faux pas. They have no life experience and tend to regard 'stories' as just that - real time pieces of theatre.

I think it was true once that there were 'caring people' working as journalists but these days life is highly commercialised.

Journalists who write stories with economic 'consequences' set themselves up as targets if there is any risk of upsetting 'big business'. Those who have a big reputation just might transcend such attention or merely suffer slight damage but for the minions, it's 'toe the line or find another job'.
 

hoopdriver

Guru
Location
East Sussex
I think it was true once that there were 'caring people' working as journalists but these days life is highly commercialised.

Journalists who write stories with economic 'consequences' set themselves up as targets if there is any risk of upsetting 'big business'. Those who have a big reputation just might transcend such attention or merely suffer slight damage but for the minions, it's 'toe the line or find another job'.
Well, I have thirty years in journalism and magazines. I might just know a little bit about it.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
Perhaps one of the most incisive pieces of analysis relating to this unfortunate incident. From UK Air Investigations Branch. Posted on Malaysia Ministry of Transport website. Source here: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...www.facebook.com/permalink.p...78566888854999


25/03/14

on 13 march we received information from uk satellite company inmarsat indicating that routine automatic communications between one of its satellites and the aircraft could be used to determine several possible flight paths.

Inmarsat uk has continued to refine this analysis and yesterday the aaib presented its most recent findings, which indicate that the aircraft flew along the southern corridor.

As you have heard, an aircraft is able to communicate with ground stations via satellite.

If the ground station has not heard from an aircraft for an hour it will transmit a 'log on / log off' message, sometimes referred to as a ‘ping’, using the aircraft’s unique identifier. If the aircraft receives its unique identifier it returns a short message indicating that it is still logged on. This process has been described as a “handshake” and takes place automatically.

From the ground station log it was established that after acars stopped sending messages, 6 complete handshakes took place.

The position of the satellite is known, and the time that it takes the signal to be sent and received, via the satellite, to the ground station can be used to establish the range of the aircraft from the satellite. This information was used to generate arcs of possible positions from which the northern and southern corridors were established.

Refined analysis from inmarsat
in recent days inmarsat developed a second innovative technique which considers the velocity of the aircraft relative to the satellite. Depending on this relative movement, the frequency received and transmitted will differ from its normal value, in much the same way that the sound of a passing car changes as it approaches and passes by. This is called the doppler effect. The inmarsat technique analyses the difference between the frequency that the ground station expects to receive and that actually measured. This difference is the result of the doppler effect and is known as the burst frequency offset.

The burst frequency offset changes depending on the location of the aircraft on an arc of possible positions, its direction of travel, and its speed. In order to establish confidence in its theory, inmarsat checked its predictions using information obtained from six other b777 aircraft flying on the same day in various directions. There was good agreement.

While on the ground at kuala lumpur airport, and during the early stage of the flight, mh370 transmitted several messages. At this stage the location of the aircraft and the satellite were known, so it was possible to calculate system characteristics for the aircraft, satellite, and ground station.

During the flight the ground station logged the transmitted and received pulse frequencies at each handshake. Knowing the system characteristics and position of the satellite it was possible, considering aircraft performance, to determine where on each arc the calculated burst frequency offset fit best.

The analysis showed poor correlation with the northern corridor, but good correlation with the southern corridor, and depending on the ground speed of the aircraft it was then possible to estimate positions at 0011 utc, at which the last complete handshake took place. I must emphasise that this is not the final position of the aircraft.

There is evidence of a partial handshake between the aircraft and ground station at 0019 utc. At this time this transmission is not understood and is subject to further ongoing work.

No response was received from the aircraft at 0115 utc, when the ground earth station sent the next log on / log off message. This indicates that the aircraft was no longer logged on to the network.

Therefore, some time between 0011 utc and 0115 utc the aircraft was no longer able to communicate with the ground station. This is consistent with the maximum endurance of the aircraft.

This analysis by inmarsat forms the basis for further study to attempt to determine the final position of the aircraft. Accordingly, the malaysian investigation has set up an international working group, comprising agencies with expertise in satellite communications and aircraft performance, to take this work forward.

In annex i (attached) there are three diagrams, showing:

Doppler correction contributions

this diagram shows the doppler contributions to the burst frequency offset.


Mh370 measured data against predicted tracks

the blue line is the burst frequency offset measured at the ground station for mh370.

The green line is the predicted burst frequency offset for the southern route, which over the last 6 handshakes show close correlation with the measured values for mh370.

The red line is the predicted burst frequency offset for the southern route, which over the last 6 handshakes does not correlate with the measured values for mh370.


Example southern tracks

this shows the southern tracks for a ground speed of 400 and 450 knots ground speed. It should be noted that further work is required to determine the aircraft speed and final position. 10155641_740971715947844_878199468_n.png 10155041_740971712614511_1614955617_n.png 1525257_740971732614509_298214666_n.png
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
A positive refinement for the future tracking of aircraft would be to 'ping' to 2 satellites instead of one and more frequently during flight, possibly sending other encoded data.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
I thought he did?
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
A positive refinement for the future tracking of aircraft would be to 'ping' to 2 satellites instead of one and more frequently during flight, possibly sending other encoded data.
And, more importantly, not allow the pilot/someone in the cockpit to turn it off.

As I understand it (and I could well be wrong) there's plenty of capability in modern aircraft for "pinging" (or similar) with lots of location data, but it got turned off.

Leaving just the engine manufacturer stuff pinging away - possibly unbeknownst to the malefactor driving the plane - and the data from that was successfully put to a purpose for which it was never intended.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
It's those automatic 'ping's that can't be turned off that I meant Dt... seems eminently sensible to me and if the 'ping' doesn't work before take-off the flight is grounded.
[anything that makes sense is worth doing!]
 
OP
OP
Smurfy

Smurfy

Naturist Smurf
And, more importantly, not allow the pilot/someone in the cockpit to turn it off.

As I understand it (and I could well be wrong) there's plenty of capability in modern aircraft for "pinging" (or similar) with lots of location data, but it got turned off.

Leaving just the engine manufacturer stuff pinging away - possibly unbeknownst to the malefactor driving the plane - and the data from that was successfully put to a purpose for which it was never intended.

It sounds good, until you realise that when something goes wrong at high altitude and 1000s miles from land, you don't just sound the fire alarm and open the exit doors. When smoke starts billowing from a piece of equipment or instrument, you need to be able to pull the plug on it. The only other option is to engineer it so highly that the chance of it going wrong is much, much lower than everything else on board.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
It sounds good, until you realise that when something goes wrong at high altitude and 1000s miles from land, you don't just sound the fire alarm and open the exit doors. When smoke starts billowing from a piece of equipment or instrument, you need to be able to pull the plug on it. The only other option is to engineer it so highly that the chance of it going wrong is much, much lower than everything else on board.
Good point.

Have it battery backed so that if you isolate it from the main power supply it still keeps on running, and just trickle charges while it's connected.

Hey, I think I'm becoming an expert on aircraft design all of a sudden ;)
 
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