more cycle lanes or more 'considerate' motorists?

[marinyork]

Unfortunately opencycle map doesn't show everything at all levels of zoom. You zoom in further more stuff appears* and the majority of the ones showing are arterial in nature. I was just commenting on the parks as that is one thing we could do here but choose not to - it was a suggestion of how to get a few miles copenhagen style for leisure use, not commuter/utility (that said many illegally commute through parks here).

*lanes are bordered blue roads, of course like we said earlier cycle lane here and elsewhere means something totally different so the map doesn't reflect this, it just shows the routes.

 

[Manonabike]

Are you sure you mean 'pavement'? My impression from a visit to Copenhagen was of a very comprehensive network of kerb-segregated cycle paths, very wide and providing excellent continuity through junctions, but also separated from the pavements. They have created their cycle routes by taking space from cars, not from pedestrians. I must admit to have been very impressed as well, even though I am generally sceptical about segregated cycle routes, not least because of the awful experience we have of this in the UK. However, what did strike me was that their streets seemed to be quite a bit wider in the first place. I've been looking hard at main roads into Oxford and London, and I just don't think we've got enough space to do something as comprehensively as the Copenhagen network. Because even if you squeeze cars out, you still need somewhere for buses, delivery vehicles etc.

Well, now that you mention it, I'm not sure if they are allowed to cycle on the pavement, however, I saw many cyclist riding on pavement. also, as you pointed out the network of cycle paths.

Furthermore, I saw lots of cyclists riding on the high street..... not sure they are allowed to do so either. Come to think of it, I also saw the police on foot but I never saw them asking cyclist to dismount their bikes.

I see that nobody commented on my opinion that cyclist riding dangerously around pedestrians should be arrested and fined - is that because people don't agree there is a problem or just think is not a good idea? I do think that some cyclist give cyclist a bad name and in some cases motorist just take out their frustration on cyclists.

I'm convince that cyclist must help themselves to change the attitude of people towards cyclists. As a pedestrian I feel afraid of some cyclists, as a cyclist I try my very best to be on the lookout for pedestrians and I also ride at a speed that I can stop in time, in fact, it has happened to me many times when I've taken the option to stop rather than squeeze between people. And as a driver, since I ride a bike, I'm far more alert to cyclists on the road.


I do a lot of my riding on the Bournemouth promenade and everyday I see people riding at speeds that they could not possibly stop if a child crossed in front of them. Parents sometimes look in shock at these cyclist and of course, the next cyclist along get the evil look I've come to think that these riders get a thrill out of riding fast around people, it's like a test to show how good they are...... unfortunately, it takes just a second for a serious accident. I'm sure some of those pedestrians, when behind the wheel, give the same treatment to cyclist on the road.

 

[Arch]

I quite agree, cyclists need to watch out for pedestrians, like we expect drivers to watch out for us. I'll admit to being frustrated by meandering pedestrians on shared paths, or those who step out without looking into the road, but I tailor my riding to the circumstances, and give any pedestrian as much of a wide berth as I can. I might mutter about the wallies, true, but I certainly don't want to hit one.

And there's the daft thing. A cyclist hitting a pedestrian at speed is probably going to come off. They may end up more injured than the person they hit. You'd think that basic self preservation would stop them riding like tits, but no. Presumably they have as little imagination and forethought as the driver who skims past with inches to spare - although of course a driver who hits a cyclist is unlikely to get hurt at all, so you can almost understand their lack of care.

As far as I can tell, there are three sorts of people, in any mode of transport. There are the sensible paragons (like me of course! ), then there are the dreamily incompetent, and the homicidally impatient. One hopes that the incompetent learn from experience, and that the impatient only end up killing themselves...

 

[fox.postbox]

OK, so for example. A council of a average sized town that hasn't been granted 'demonstration funding' with a population of 30,000 - 35,000, this town like many others will have a budget of 80p/£1 per head, leaving a relatively small sum.


Bearing in mind in some cases cycle lanes can cost up to £60,000 for a mile, would the money be better spent on campaigning or in another area?

any thoughts?

 

[gaz]

And I don't know how anyone can look at London's streets and think they are nice and wide...
Maybe out in the wilds of Croydon or wherever, places where things got planned and built recently, but I'd challenge you to come to Stoke Newington or somewhere like that and show us how we can easily fit i a segregated cycle lane.

99% of the cycle lanes in Croydon are awful. only a handful of roads support cycle lanes well.

 

[handsome joe]

I have been using the Superhighways in London off and on. I can feel myself relax when i am riding their separate cycle lanes. If you don't know already they are raised, blue painted lanes with designated traffic lights etc. I believe it is much safer as a car would have to mount the paving between the road and the cycle lane which is unlikely. When i am cycling on a road alongside motor vehicles i have to "switch on" and be able to able to anticipate the movement of vehicles around me and pedestrians and other cyclists while concentrating on my riding. When i am cycling on a cycle lane i can mental relax to a point and the experience of cycling becomes much more pleasurable. Unlike going through London in the rush hour wishing i had eyes in the back of my head. I find most motorists have very little awareness. Last week i came across a guy whose back wheel and rear of his frame under a BMW at a junction. First thing the driver said when he got out is "i thought you were gone?". Luckily the cyclists had automatically unclipped and jumped off when this guy rear ended him. The riders back wheel was f****d and his chainstays completely snapped off. The motor driver sage like advice was "you only need a new tyre". He near got a punch when he said that because the cyclist's was livid. Anyway when you have drivers like that on the roads i am all for cycle lanes.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

I'd challenge you to come to Stoke Newington or somewhere like that and show us how we can easily fit i a segregated cycle lane.

Here on Albion Road there are parking bays that are taking up space that could form a segregated cycle lane.

The same applies for Evering Road, here.

And on Stoke Newington High Street.

And on side streets like Beatty Road, where we have double parking bays on a narrow road.

Of course, the idea of the local council removing those parking bays and replacing them with cycle lanes is fanciful and absurd. But the room to do so is quite easily there, even if the political will is not.

These are decisions the Dutch made in the 1960s and 1970s - it took effort to convert their streets from being car-dominated to cycle-friendly. Their towns and cities are not magically cycling- and pedestrian-friendly. Sadly I suspect it is far too late, and there is far too much inertia in how our streets are currently configured, for us to follow them.

 

[mcshroom]

There are definitely places where separated cycle paths are good, like one I ride on every day (too new for streetview) which are 4m wide and allow you to go up a hill without holding up traffic. On the roads themselves however I have never really worked out why councils bother painitng bits of road red (or blue or green or any other colour). They don't add to the road space and just annoy cyclists and drivers.

Warrington Cycle Campaign did a study 5 years ago where they found that on almost identical roads the traffic passed much more closely with a painted cycle lane than without one. Their conclusion was that the best provision for cycling was to make road lanes 4.25m wide. This allows cars to pass cyclists safely without needing to cross the white line and makes a nice wide road when cyclists aren't there. Surely this would be more useful than a bit of paint or even worse that badly laid red tarmac that has more rolling resistance than the road.

I don't want to be separated from traffic, but allowing the space for all users to interact safely and courteously surely is a sensible way to go.

 

[dondare]

Here on Albion Road there are parking bays that are taking up space that could form a segregated cycle lane.

The same applies for Evering Road, here.

And on Stoke Newington High Street.

And on side streets like Beatty Road, where we have double parking bays on a narrow road.

Of course, the idea of the local council removing those parking bays and replacing them with cycle lanes is fanciful and absurd. But the room to do so is quite easily there, even if the political will is not.

These are decisions the Dutch made in the 1960s and 1970s - it took effort to convert their streets from being car-dominated to cycle-friendly. Their towns and cities are not magically cycling- and pedestrian-friendly. Sadly I suspect it is far too late, and there is far too much inertia in how our streets are currently configured, for us to follow them.

Just remove the parking bays and don't bother with the cycle lanes.

Near where I work there has been a major (lengthy and expensive) makeover of a small section of road that now includes the most Godawful cycle lane (very narrow two-way with an invisible kerb between it and the road) that some ignorant non-cycling kunt of a planner must be very proud of.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Vehicular Cyclists have has what 30+ years to win the shared road space argument. They haven't carried the day. My wife won't ride on the road, my fiends think I'm nuts to cycle, fellow cyclists think I'm nuts to cycle on the roads I ride, we can't uninvent the car nor reverse what it has done to society. Perhaps the way forwards is segregated infrastructure ridden on by people riding bikes with upright riding positions rather than bent backed race bikes (of both flat and drop barred varieties)?

 

[davefb]

Just remove the parking bays and don't bother with the cycle lanes.

Near where I work there has been a major (lengthy and expensive) makeover of a small section of road that now includes the most Godawful cycle lane (very narrow two-way with an invisible kerb between it and the road) that some ignorant non-cycling kunt of a planner must be very proud of.

i met this waste of money at the weekend...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...b6At7aRPuNMW4tKf0rC9rg&cbp=12,237.61,,0,15.31

the parked cars werent there , but there was a bit more traffic,,, i think it must be a special sort of trap , okay maybe there *is* enough room at the side to cycle thru , but it certainly didnt look like it especially if i actually pedalled!!

 

[ComedyPilot]

Vehicular Cyclists have has what 30+ years to win the shared road space argument. They haven't carried the day. My wife won't ride on the road, my fiends think I'm nuts to cycle, fellow cyclists think I'm nuts to cycle on the roads I ride, we can't uninvent the car nor reverse what it has done to society. Perhaps the way forwards is segregated infrastructure ridden on by people riding bikes with upright riding positions rather than bent backed race bikes (of both flat and drop barred varieties)?

How about we put the onus of responsibility for road safety onto the morons that kill the most people (including themselves): i.e. the vehicle drivers, not the most vulnerable?

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

How about we put the onus of responsibility for road safety onto the morons that kill the most people (including themselves): i.e. the vehicle drivers, not the most vulnerable?

Why not do both? I don't see why greater provision of segregation necessarily means that the onus of responsibility for collisions needs to be taken away from negligent motorists.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

i met this waste of money at the weekend...

http://maps.google.c...237.61,,0,15.31

the parked cars werent there , but there was a bit more traffic,,, i think it must be a special sort of trap , okay maybe there *is* enough room at the side to cycle thru , but it certainly didnt look like it especially if i actually pedalled!!

To be fair, I don't think that's designed to be a cycle lane. (But I do hate those speed cushions with a passion - they do nothing to slow people down, and everything to encourage dangerous swerving).

 

[davefb]

To be fair, I don't think that's designed to be a cycle lane. (But I do hate those speed cushions with a passion - they do nothing to slow people down, and everything to encourage dangerous swerving).

i'm gunna cycle past it again, coz i'm sure it's marked with green paint and looks like others that are wide enough to pass through, just when you get closer you sort of think 'hang on'!

yeah,, i'd much prefer speed cameras than those stupid humps .