more cycle lanes or more 'considerate' motorists?

[Eddie]

My Mrs is Dutch so over the last 7 years I have spent loads of time cycling in Holland. What they have over there is basically the "dream" scenario. Good quality cycle lanes everywhere, everyone cycles and has a bike, bikes have right of way in most scenarios. It's also flat as a pancake which is nice

.

It's obviously not achievable here and therefore I feel that there should be a way for cyclists to report bad drivers, who are then forced to cycle at least 10 miles a day for 2 weeks. After experiencing that they can then go back on the road with their new found empathy.

 

[crumpetman]

Everyone has to start somewhere, what's the problem with that?

Call me cynical but it seemed odd for a first post. It's usually things like "how do I do this?" or "what's the best bike to get?" It has sparked off some discussion though.

 

[gaz]

Not read the other posts - as i'm a lazy bugger.

But both cycle lanes and inconsiderate motorists are the issue.

Cycle lanes because they are mostly pretty crap, badly maintained and put you in difficult or dangerous situations. As we all know, some motorists are arse's!

 

[Arch]

Not read the other posts - as i'm a lazy bugger.

But both cycle lanes and inconsiderate motorists are the issue.

Cycle lanes because they are mostly pretty crap, badly maintained and put you in difficult or dangerous situations. As we all know, some motorists are arse's!

Arse's what?

Some drivers are just crap, or antisocial or both, of course. I was at a Xroads on Weds, at the head of a queue, in the ASL, at a red light, waiting to go straight on. Junction has a yellow box. My light goes red/amber, car on the crossing road comes through (must have been on red, or very warm amber), joining the queue on that road, ending up just clear of the yellow box. My light goes green. Before I've started to roll forward, another car crosses the lights on the crossing road - must have come through a clear red, remember, my light is green now, not just amber, and pulls up, in the yellow box, blocking my side of the road. I go behind him, with a shake of the head. The lady on a bike coming the other way, and wanting to turn right (and therefore had this car right in the way of where she needed to go to filter in), was a little more vocal. I didn't wait around to hear the outcome, but exchanged rolled eyes with her.

I've no doubt that if you'd asked the chap, he'd have said he was a very good driver. Just the two misdemeanors in the course of one junction after all, what's the problem? Little things like that, they don't really matter. Like a little speeding doesn't really matter. Like passing a cyclist too close doesn't matter. It's a slippery slope.

 

[gaz]

It's a slippery slope.

and it only gets steeper.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

I don't dislike all cycle lanes...

2 points:

1. To be completely against cycle lanes is to deny the versatility and the superiority for urban use of the cycle. THere are parts of urban areas that are grossly unsuitable for cars yet perfectly suited to cycles, therefore there SHOULD be some routes which reflect this
2. To illustrate - I felt ill yesterday about 4pm and riding home at 6 was awful. The smaller hills made me want to retch and vomit and I had zero strength in my legs. Taking the off-road cycle lane was a useful option..I wasn't up to the variations in speed and generally riding with faster traffic and it got me thinking about new cyclists be they nervous or just slow to begin with. People outht to be allowed to cycle without doing it every single day, or training for it, and sometimes a cycle lane can be more beneficial to an occasional cyclist to whom 18mph top speed may seem an irrelevance and is happy just to pootle about

It's just unfortunate that many cycle lanes are utter s**t. That said, better facilities should NOT come at the expense of our right to use the road.

 

[HJ]

As it hasn't been emphasised, forget about cycle lanes, I think in terms of measures the 20s Plenty Campaign will do far more to make cycling and walking more attractive. Currently there are very few 20s roads, usually hogged by a few areas that have special areas and the usual hundred yards outside schools (which is not extensive enough).

The other weekend I did a tour along the coastal villages of Fife and was please to see that most of them now have 20 mph speed limits. Not 20 is plenty zones, no these are full time statutory 20 mph speed limits, oddly there isn't a lot of traffic calming, but they are generally being observed. I see this as a great move in the right direction. Hopefully these sort of initiatives will be role out across the rest of the country.

 

[summerdays]

Which leads me to the question that if motorists were more aware of cyclists not just physically, but if they had some understanding of what its like to be cycling on the roads, would they be less 'inconsiderate' to cyclists creating some equality on the roads?

But if you ignore whether they have experience of being a cyclist and think of whether they have experience of being a pedestrian, and how considerate are they to pedestrians. I do think it is a benefit to have experience of being a cyclist to understand exactly what we want from a motorist, but to be honest it seems to be that once in that metal box it seems to cut off the motorist from the outside world.

I think strict liability would help, but just a whole change of attitude to other people in general would be a start.

 

[marinyork]

The other weekend I did a tour along the coastal villages of Fife and was please to see that most of them now have 20 mph speed limits. Not 20 is plenty zones, no these are full time statutory 20 mph speed limits, oddly there isn't a lot of traffic calming, but they are generally being observed. I see this as a great move in the right direction. Hopefully these sort of initiatives will be role out across the rest of the country.

That's what 20s plenty is about. Full time and as little traffic calming as possible and as large an area as possible to save costs on signs. A lot of LAs are going in this direction but since it's done by local lobby groups all over it's not entered the cycling news let alone national media outlets. There are fairly chunky 20 zones in some cities, like round here, it's just particular neighbourhoods/areas they picked with very little in between. They are slowly moving over to 20 zones here but like someone joked it would literally take 50 years to implement here (100 zones and 2 per year).

 

[crumpetman]

I don't dislike all cycle lanes...

2 points:

1. To be completely against cycle lanes is to deny the versatility and the superiority for urban use of the cycle. THere are parts of urban areas that are grossly unsuitable for cars yet perfectly suited to cycles, therefore there SHOULD be some routes which reflect this
2. To illustrate - I felt ill yesterday about 4pm and riding home at 6 was awful. The smaller hills made me want to retch and vomit and I had zero strength in my legs. Taking the off-road cycle lane was a useful option..I wasn't up to the variations in speed and generally riding with faster traffic and it got me thinking about new cyclists be they nervous or just slow to begin with. People outht to be allowed to cycle without doing it every single day, or training for it, and sometimes a cycle lane can be more beneficial to an occasional cyclist to whom 18mph top speed may seem an irrelevance and is happy just to pootle about

It's just unfortunate that many cycle lanes are utter s**t. That said, better facilities should NOT come at the expense of our right to use the road.

I agree with both these points and on occasion take the cycle path if I feel I cannot go fast enough on a road where there is often no space to safely overtake.

Where does the 18mph thing come from? Is it in the highway code or some unwritten rule? I was on a shared use path this morning going past some ambling students and on approach I was doing about 18 and slowed to under 10 to go past them. I think 18mph is too fast for shared use paths, about 10 a lot safer. How fast do runners go on the path? I think that would be a suitable top speed for bikes too.

 

[Origamist]

I agree with both these points and on occasion take the cycle path if I feel I cannot go fast enough on a road where there is often no space to safely overtake.

Where does the 18mph thing come from? Is it in the highway code or some unwritten rule? I was on a shared use path this morning going past some ambling students and on approach I was doing about 18 and slowed to under 10 to go past them. I think 18mph is too fast for shared use paths, about 10 a lot safer. How fast do runners go on the path? I think that would be a suitable top speed for bikes too.

Annex D: Code of Conduct Notice for Cyclists using shared lane paths.

Ride at a sensible speed for the situation and ensure you can stop in time. As a general rule, if you want to cycle quickly, say in excess of 18 mph/30 kph, then you should be riding on the road.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives....e/2004/ltnwc/annexdcodeofconductnoticefor1688

 

[crumpetman]

Thanks Origamist.

 

[Inertia]

To throw in my two penniesworth I feel both are needed, I also think that close passes arent always the indicator of a nasty driver, its sometimes just ignorance.

Looking back on my pre cycling days I think I probably passed cycles too close although I didnt THINK I was and certainly didnt mean to scare a cyclist. I thought I had left plenty of room and though I curse people for nipping past me to turn only a few yards in front of me, I find myself wondering if its something i would have done

I also realise that in a car, having to suddenly slow down and crawl along, even if its not for long can be frustrating, even if its irrational which most people realise when they think about it in the hard light of day, I just dont know what the fix to that is beyond us all realising we dont need to be in such a rush to get somewhere.

I nowadays travel pretty slow, by that I mean I stick to the speed limits, which is educational when you see how many people do (I dont pass many people) my wife commented on it, she said I "pootle" along. She wasnt complaining though and I was actually quite pleased with the description, it means Ive changed and I think if more pootled along it would be a lot nicer out there.

 

[Tinuts]

I think if more pootled along it would be a lot nicer out there.

Yes. +1 vote for more pootling!

 

[dondare]

Motorists are required by Law to show consideration to all other road users. It is not something that they can do if they are feeling warm-hearted and generous.
Cycle-lanes are at best irrelevent and at worst killers.