Most dangerous commute this morning in a long time

[Lazy-Commuter]

That might be your opinion, but it's utterly wrong in the opinion of many experts.

Primary is extremely useful in reducing the numbers of incidents, but it won't stop someone from, for example, overtaking if they really want to drive badly. OTOH it does discourage most less cretinous and determined drivers from making that stupid overtake that they would do when a rider is in secondary. It does no more than play the odds, and leaves you with room to duck out of the way if you need to correct for a poor driver.

Totally agree, BM. As discussed on here loads in the past, drivers tend to come in three broad groups*:
- The vast majority who are OK, reasonably sensible and all that.
- The inattentive, distracted sort. Probably the next biggest group?
- The out and out nutters: could be that they think they're the next F1 God in waiting, could be that they just know they're more important than anyone else, could be that they're just axe wielding nutters.

Primary position is not going to upset (too many of) the first group; it might not be needed as they might not go for a mad overtake. But it won't hurt them, and might just help you out.

For the second group, it makes the cyclist easier to see and also just might bring their mind back to the task in hand, rather than wondering what's for tea tonight, or what's going to happen in Eastenders, they might wonder if it really is a good idea to overtake that bike yet.

For the third group, they'll probably go for it anyway. You just won't ever stop them, whatever you do. But at least you've got an escape route.

* bit of an over simplification I know, but you get the idea.

 

[jonny jeez]

Gah, sorry to hear of your troubles, TT and Jonny. Those commutes sound like awful ones, and really very scary. Mucho sympathy! Here's a virtual hot cuppa and a ginger nut for you both.

Yummy, thanks...just what i needed!!

 

[Origamist]

1 other serious point though - all this talk of 'secondary' and 'primary' makes me wince. If you want to nanny the driver of a 1+ tonne lump of speeding metal by infuriating him by cycling 'in primary' then go for it but you're a cert for a Darwin award sooner or later. IMHO it's an incredibly dangerous style of cycling unless absolutely necessary. It may feel safer but I don't think it is due to the aggravation it creates from following drivers.

Do you know anything about these lateral road positions and when to employ them ?

It appears that some people have become so inured to the contested and adversarial nature of our roads that their thinking has become addled. If you feel infuriated by a delay of a few seconds and feel the need to purge your frustration by bullying and endangering a fellow human being, than you should not hold a driving licence (hence why I advocate complaining about egregiously bad driving).

 

[ttcycle]

Yummy, thanks...just what i needed!!

+1 -I'm getting very hungry-is it lunch time yet?

Also +1 for primary and secondary positions allowing more room to shift to should you be caught in a hairy situation.

 

[jonny jeez]

That might be your opinion, but it's utterly wrong in the opinion of many experts.

Primary is extremely useful in reducing the numbers of incidents, but it won't stop someone from, for example, overtaking if they really want to drive badly. OTOH it does discourage most less cretinous and determined drivers from making that stupid overtake that they would do when a rider is in secondary. It does no more than play the odds, and leaves you with room to duck out of the way if you need to correct for a poor driver.

+1 BM, I totally agree and was a little shocked with Bryces responce.

Bryce, I'm not starting on you here as I appreciate your view but I totally disagree, If I had adopted a less prominent position this morning I would almost certainly be dead as the guy in question would have had me off my bike and under either his lorry or the bus next to me really fast. As it was, he had to squeeze past me to force me over..if I was over already he would have deliberatley clipped me *at speed* or worse still...just ploughed over me.

My position slowed this and stopped it from being much worse. So glad I just started reading Cyclecraft!!

Jonny

 

[Archie_tect]

What makes it really bad is the fact that the lorry driver had premeditated the situation so it would be reasonable to prosecute for leaving the scene of an accident, driving dangerously and attempted murder. Any witnesses?

 

[arallsopp]

Glad ttcycle and Jonny live to post another day. Can't help but think their road positioning helped save their skins. Well done both.

 

[johnsie]

Take a leaf out of the "The Third Policeman".

"..... knocked him down by giving him a great blow in the neck with a special bicycle-pump which he manufactured himself out of a hollow iron bar".

Seriously though, glad you made it.

Anybody else read the Third Policeman?

 

[gaz]

Ouch, you guys have had some bad days today.... I was forced over by a car this morning, what the car didn't realise is i was doing 25mph, just pumped my tyres up to 120psi and she was pushing me into a load of gravel in the road, least to say a few stones flicked out from under me and all over her now scratched car. muahahaha!

 

[Wheeledweenie]

Gosh, I had thought my commute was a bit pants but it had nothing on the two described here.

Glad you're both ok. Can I get some tea too, am knackered.

 

[ttcycle]

WW tea all round - let's have a group hug!!! Haha...

Johnsie- i'm making my way through that right now - absolutely hilarious! Many friends have told me to read it as a cycle obsessive...It's most worrying when you read the dialogue and know what a 'rat trap' cage is in relation too.Just heightens the bike geek credentials I think!

gaz- that must have been satisfying!

 

[bryce]

Not sure I'm explaining myself well. By all means obviously cycle in a safe position - I'm not advocating cycling in the gutter or clipping parked wing-mirrors but IMO you can be perfectly in control and assertive by cycling in a fluid, safe position whilst giving respect to other road users without having to adopt either 'secondary' or 'primary'. Each to their own I guess, but I've never heard 'primary' / 'secondary' mentioned anywhere but on a few cycling forums. Never in a pub/ cycling club/ race etc. Just seems nonsensical and a recipe for unnecessary danger.

 

[ttcycle]

primary and secondary and switching between the two is also a 'fluid, safe position whilst giving respect to other road users' - It's just a formalised term for where people are cycling - you'll find a lot of folk on club runs - two abreast let's say will naturally be in secondary - the person on the left most side of the kerb and the other on the right most side will probably be in primary - cutting back in behind the other cyclist if it becomes safer to cycle both in secondary.

Sounds like we're on the same page Bryce.

 

[Origamist]

Not sure I'm explaining myself well. By all means obviously cycle in a safe position - I'm not advocating cycling in the gutter or clipping parked wing-mirrors but IMO you can be perfectly in control and assertive by cycling in a fluid, safe position whilst giving respect to other road users without having to adopt either 'secondary' or 'primary'. Each to their own I guess, but I've never heard 'primary' / 'secondary' mentioned anywhere but on a few cycling forums. Never in a pub/ cycling club/ race etc. Just seems nonsensical and a recipe for unnecessary danger.

Bryce, you should read Cyclecraft - then you will know what we are talking about. As it stands, you are criticising something you do not fully understand - hardly unheard of on a forum, but it means people won't take your well meaning advice seriously.

If you want to borrow a copy, pm me.

 

[2Loose]

TTcycle and Johnny, I really do hope you both have a much happier and safer ride home - sounds like it couldn't get any worse...and johnny, good luck with the police.