Jowwy I had a local cycle mechanic build them for me in Cheshire. The guy is great and has spent years on the pro MTB tour as a mechanic, he now does the oily stuff full time and gives courses etc, and still rides out but more on the road these days. We had a very long chat about options and value for money, with the main requirement being 'bomb proof', great roller, light and have top hubs. He was able to source me the Stans No Tubes Alpha (Disc) wheels and Hope hubs for around the £450 mark. I can however tell you that the wheels we took off without rubber is still twice as heavy as these baby's with hubs and rubber fitted. I had plenty of punctures on the standard wheels, and a lot of noise coming from the hubs, discs and brakes on the standard wheels after pot-hole incidents. The only sound I get with these Alph's is 'swooooosh' even on rough road surfaces. I'm no top end cyclist but my average speed increased, comfort increased, no punctures, stops even better. I know from looking these wheels up on-line that they were going for around $650 without hubs and spokes etc, so I think I got a great deal. The guy is in the process of doing some wheels for my nephew who lives down south, so he obviously uses the Royal mail too? (Not sure what wheels he's building for him)