"Never mind the speeding, it was the cyclists fault!"

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eddiemee

Well-Known Member
Fair enough on perspective, but the facts of the case are that the driver was 16mph over the limit, yet the verdict was accidental death. What sort of message does this send out to other drivers about the consequences of speeding? Especially in light of those road safety adds 'If you hit me at 40mph there's an 80% chance ......'

Grrr.
 
THis is a prime example of a "fact" being built up by the media from a mere possibility.

On another site there was a link to a very interesting article how Ipods became such a scourge and the "evidence"
The author is Gareth Rees and this is taken from his website:

How the anti-cycling lobby poisons public discourse

Gareth Rees, 2009-12-11
Cyclists: “lycra louts”, “mindless maniacs” or “iPod zombies”?

The Guardian is normally free of the usual “Cyclists: Threat or Menace?” nonsense, but on 2009-11-30 it published an article by Edmund King, “Beware the iPod zombie cyclist”. Here’s how it starts:

Beware! There seems to be a new type of cyclist out there – not the Lycra lout but the iPod zombie. I must declare an interest as a keen cyclist, pedestrian, train passenger, driver and, indeed, iPod user. However, like drinking and driving, I don't think iPods and cycling mix. On my bike, audible warnings are just as important as visual ones. Even if you can see what is in front of you, you have to hear what is behind you as you move out to avoid potholes or raised manhole covers.

Your personal stereo gives you personal music which may affect the way you ride. Research shows that loud, fast music can raise blood pressure and adrenaline, which might just tempt you to take chances.

I suppose most people see zombies as creatures staggering steadily forward towards their goal, undeterred and unharmed by all that is being used to try to stop them. But this new breed of zombie evolving on the roads of Britain is finding its way into road casualty reports.

I normally ignore this kind of prejudicial nonsense, but it was brought to my attention when someone whose opinion I respect—someone who is himself a keen cyclist—appeared to fall for it.

My first instinct was to point out the myriad ways in which the piece is nonsense. But I have to say now that this was a bit of a mistake: I fell into a trap that the writer set for me. Once we find ourselves spending our time debating whether and to what extent cyclists are a bunch of menacing zombies, then we’ve already lost that round of the propaganda war.

Instead, the questions I propose to consider are, what is this opinion piece doing in the Guardian, and what it its agenda? I’ll come back to the zombie question at the end.

Let’s start with the author. Who is Edmund King? Is he a sensible, neutral, commentator whose opinion on whether cyclists are “lycra louts”, “mindless maniacs” or “iPod zombies” is one we ought to take seriously? No, he’s the president of the bloody Automobile Association, that’s who he is. He has a history of writing pro-motorist articles for newspapers, appealing for speed limits not to be reduced (for motorists), for motor vehicles not to be fitted with speed regulators, for Vehicle Excise Duty not to be increased, and so on. He’s a propagandist for the motor car, and no sensible person should read anything he says on the subject without checking their pockets afterwards.

What is the purpose of the article? The clue is in the last sentence I quoted:

But this new breed of zombie evolving on the roads of Britain is finding its way into road casualty reports.

The purpose of the article is to push the impression that cyclists are largely to blame for their own deaths and injuries. It’s not hard to understand why the president of the Automobile Association might be keen to place the blame for cyclist fatalities anywhere but on the motorists he represents.

King also suggests that any government action aimed at reducing the number of injuries and deaths to cyclists, should take the form of campaigns directed at cyclists, rather than laws or enforcement directed at motorists:

The government THINK! campaign has warned of the dangers of pedestrians texting. The time has come for a campaign aimed at iPod users on the road.

Why did King write this article now? There’s a clue in the penultimate paragraph:

With 820 cyclists killed or seriously injured in the three months to June—a 19% rise on the same period last year—we need to do all we can to make cycling safer.

What’s happened is that early in November, the Department for Transport released its Transport Statistics Bulletin for April–June 2009. The most notable figure in the report is that whereas other categories of road user largely saw similar numbers of casualties in 2009 as in 2008, the numbers of cyclists killed or seriously injured in this period was up by 19% on the same period in 2008.

This worrying figure obviously provides ammunition for pro-cycling campaigners in all their on-going battles for better facilities and changes to legislation. One current battle is over strict liability: a number of groups (for example, RoadPeace, the DfT's Cycling England, CTC) are campaigning for European-style strict liability laws for operators of motor vehicles. Edmund King already spends some of his time campaigning against such a change in the law: for example, you can see him quoted arguing against it in this Sunday Times article.

I’m sure you can see how important it is, when something like the DfT report emerges, for the AA and other anti-cycling campaigners to get their spin in quickly. And in this case, the spin is that cyclists are to blame for the increase in casualties because they are “iPod zombies”.

Writing in the Guardian, a newspaper whose readers might be considered to be less anti-cyclist than most, King has to be somewhat circumspect in how he goes about his demonizing of cyclists, and in the context of a piece clearly labelled as opinion. But in more sympathetic newspapers, the same opinions are reported as if news, with the allegation that cyclists are to blame for their own injuries and deaths made explicitly. For example, the Daily Mail:

The fashion for wearing iPods while cycling has been blamed for a rise in the number of riders being killed or seriously injured. Dubbed the iPod zombies, cyclists who are distracted by thumping tunes blaring in their ears have become the latest menace on Britain's roads. Road safety campaigners fear the fashion for cyclists to wear earphones is partly responsible for the recent upsurge in injuries and deaths. Edmund King, the president of the AA, called for the Department for Transport to launch a campaign warning cyclists of the risk.

Much the same article appears in the Sunday Times.

Note the phrase “has been blamed” in the Mail piece. The journalist is hoping that you’ll think that the connection between iPod wearing and the casualty figures is something that comes out of the official statistics. But it doesn’t. It’s completely made up. There are no figures available for the number of “iPod zombies”, or even any evidence that they exist at all. As the Sunday Times says, “It is not known how many of these [deaths and injuries] were caused by people listening to music because the DfT and the police do not record the information.” In other words, maybe none of them.

But that doesn't matter, because the prejudicial echo chamber is happy to repeat the spin. Newspaper headlines, which should says, “Big increase in cyclist deaths and injuries”, become, “Beware, iPod zombie cyclists are on the rise”. And the president of the AA can pose as a “road safety campaigner”.

*

So does the zombie threat make sense? Of course the argument has a kernel of truth, otherwise it wouldn’t fool anyone: no doubt some iPod-wearing cyclists zone out and pay less attention than they should. (But where's the evidence, other than King's say-so? He doesn’t even bother to present an anecdote.) And it’s possible that an audible warning of hazard may prove useful. But really, the case is absurdly overstated. City streets are so noisy with motor vehicles that you can’t depend on your hearing. Some vehicles are silent (for example, other cyclists); others are too quiet to hear against the background noise of traffic; and in any case you can’t tell their intentions from the noises they make. I don’t wear an iPod myself, but I doubt that it would make any measurable difference to my safety if I did. When I was run down by a bus, I heard the bus coming, but I didn’t realise that the driver meant to run me down until it was too late to escape. (Maybe this makes me responsible for my own misfortune, in the opinion of Edmund King?)

And something that’s completely missing from the piece is the fact that motorists, cocooned in their airtight cars, can hear very little at the best of times, and many motorists are listening to their own iPods via their much louder in-car entertainment systems. If it’s fine for motorists to cut themselves off from outside sounds, then why pick on cyclists? Conversely, if it’s bad for cyclists to do so, how much worse for motorists? The answer is that the point is not to construct a rational case, but to reinforce the stereotype of cyclists as reckless scofflaws, so as to deflect attention from the motorists who cause the vast majority of deaths and injuries on the road.

How much of the rest of the “lycra lout” material that we see in the media is also being pushed by well-paid propagandists for the motorist?

Update 2010-01-09. I have noticed, in the recent cold weather, a number of cyclists wearing woolly headgear. This covers their ears and impairs their hearing. Do earmuffs and cycling mix? When will we rid the streets of the scourge of the balaclava bandit?
 

ComedyPilot

Secret Lemonade Drinker
[QUOTE 1184114"]
That's not what I was saying if you were referring to me.
[/quote]

I was referring to the (judge's) view that the cyclist being found with an Ipod contributed to his death.

Would a hearing aid found on the dead body be as good an excuse to partially pardon the driver's actions?

A driver of a vehicle should always drive at a speed where they can safely bring the vehicle to a halt in the distance they see to be clear in front of themselves.
 

ComedyPilot

Secret Lemonade Drinker
Cyclists: “lycra louts”, “mindless maniacs” or “iPod zombies”?

Demonise us as much as you like, but the 'true' story is 'you' vehicle drivers KILL 3500 people, year in, year out.

Given the (scum) media mentality, we ought to spray paint 'potential murderer' on every car.
 

JoysOfSight

Active Member
I don't see how you can blame the driver at all, he was only 42% over the speed limit which anyone planning to cross the road, whether deaf or listening to music (or simply with earphones around their neck!) should obviously have realised.

See the headphone topic running in parallel. It's a sad fact of life that unless a victim is cleaner than clean, they'll be blamed even by other cyclists for any possible thread of doubt that might mitigate the driver who nails them, almost irrespective of the behaviour of the other party. (In this case, being 42% over the speed limit is dismissed as "the collision would have happened and been fatal" anyway. WTF?)

At Jason MacIntyre's inquest the sherriff went way further than this, saying that having dark hair or a bike with drop bars might be mitigations excusing an oncoming driver who fatally right-hooked you. (The full text is available to download, somewhere).

I'd wager that if the deceased in this case had been cammed up, the video would have shown him looking at the lorry and deciding to step out anyway, and the worst we can blame him for is not correctly judging it to be travelling at 42% over the legal limit.

Nobody has ever demonstrated that passive listening has any effect on this part of the brain - after all, you're *always* listening to something - and to excuse a fatal accident on that count is sickening.
 
OP
OP
downfader

downfader

extimus uero philosophus
Location
'ampsheeeer
[QUOTE 1184112"]
The person crossing the road should of been paying attention.


[/quote]


TBH I agree. Its just the fact other contributary factors seem to have been cast offhand, and other nonsense has been pushed in as if its relevant. Opinion should never be confused with facts and this is what will happen imo.

It kind of makes me wonder, could a driver simply plant an mp3 player on the cyclist they've hit and then get away with their own negative actions, such is public opinion on the matter now?
 

postman

Legendary Member
Location
,Leeds
Lets work this one out .

Bob Mee a local well known cyclist was fatally injured today at a well know accident spot .

At the junction of King Lane and Stonegate Road Mr Mee was knocked off his bike.Mr Mee who was 60 was positioned to the right of the roundabout entering Stonegate Road a small queue of traffic behind him .The motorist who struck Mr Mee was in another lane when he realised his mistake and cut across catching the back wheel of Mr Mee's bike .

Mr Mee had severe hearing difficulties which meant he wore hearing aids set at level 3 out of a selection of 1-4.and was also blind in his left eye .Both conditions could have resulted in Mr Mee not realizing the motorist was approaching at speed behind him ,and at the pinch point a very large area ofwhite paint could not get over quick enough to allow Mr Dick Head room to pass .

No the reason for the accident was that the motorist was taking a short cut .Getting ahead of a queue of motorists who were positioned correctly .The junction in this story does exist The name of the cyclist is real ,his conditions are also real .The manouvre does take place regular .But the injury is a figment of the writers imagination .

The lorry driver in the post was speeding and should have been more aware of his surroundings and the speed limit .Speed played a part in this tradegy
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
I was referring to the (judge's) view that the cyclist being found with an Ipod contributed to his death.

Would a hearing aid found on the dead body be as good an excuse to partially pardon the driver's actions?
A driver of a vehicle should always drive at a speed where they can safely bring the vehicle to a halt in the distance they see to be clear in front of themselves.




A hearing aid would be used to enhance the wearer's  "contact" with his environment.


An ipod is generally worn with the intention of creating a personal zone separate from the wider environment 
 

Ravenbait

Someone's imaginary friend
[QUOTE 1184122"]
TBH The cyclist above should not be out on the road, being that deaf in both ears and blind in one eye (so no depth perception) is an accident waiting to happen.
[/quote]

Good grief.

I'm blind in one eye. I have no depth perception. Thankfully, at distances over about ten feet parallax takes over. People with two eyes don't rely on stereo vision for judging distance on the road either.

Or should I get off the road because I'm an accident waiting to happen?

Sam
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
[QUOTE 1184122"]
TBH The cyclist above should not be out on the road, being that deaf in both ears and blind in one eye (so no depth perception) is an accident waiting to happen.

As for the truck speeding, from my experience it would not have made the slightest bit of difference. The braking distance from 40mph to 56 mph has no bearing as the weight, size and length of an artic makes it's handling and braking characteristics far different from those of a car.
[/quote]

You are allowed to drive with vision in one eye only, as a friend of mine did for a number of years in the 1980's/90's before the cancer returned. Equally you can also cycle if you are deaf, and I have cycled with a deaf cyclist, and they were fine.
 

Ravenbait

Someone's imaginary friend
You are allowed to drive with vision in one eye only, as a friend of mine did for a number of years in the 1980's/90's before the cancer returned. Equally you can also cycle if you are deaf, and I have cycled with a deaf cyclist, and they were fine.

I also have a full car and motorcycle licence and have done for 20 years.

Sam
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
[QUOTE 1184112"]
The person crossing the road should of been paying attention.
[/quote]

should have been paying attention
 
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