New Bosch Motor

[Levo-Lon]

My trek ebike can be de-restricted quickly without any dongle or interference with the motor.

Very simple, you move the wheel magnet sensor, unscrew off the frame and move it towards the BB.
Move the wheel magnet to the crank.
The speed will read 7 mph at 27 mph. You have a full power ebike in 10 mins..

This would be undetectable if it was to fail.

I'm all for legal ebikes so bosch need to sort this too.
I couldn't do this very easily on the specialized levo as it has a rear wheel hub sensor.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

The speed will read 7 mph at 27 mph. You have a full power ebike in 10 mins..

Only if in the event of a motor failure there was some evidence that it had been run at higher power, but if the manufacturer is confident it has locked the motor down so it cannot be run at higher power then they know it's a genuine failure. I suspect this has something to do with warranty rejections.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Only if in the event of a motor failure there was some evidence that it had been run at higher power, but if the manufacturer is confident it has locked the motor down so it cannot be run at higher power then they know it's a genuine failure. I suspect this has something to do with warranty rejections.

It doesn't run at higher power.

The knock off point is a switch, thats what the magnet does.

So by using the crank instead of the whhel it fools the motor.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

It doesn't run at higher power.

Bad choice of words, so it allows the motor to spin up to a higher speed, for instance when they build the motor, bearing in mind they want it built as cheap as possible, they could install bearings at each end of the motor capable of running at 5,000 rpm for 10,000 hours before they fail MTBF (Mean time Before Failure) however if the bypassed motor is then capable of running at 7,000 rpm that MTBF may drop to 2,000 as the additional heat generated could be beyond the tolerance of the bearing.

No idea on failure rates but it could be in the manufacturer's interest to make them as hard as possible to bypass.

 

[jowwy]

Bad choice of words, so it allows the motor to spin up to a higher speed, for instance when they build the motor, bearing in mind they want it built as cheap as possible, they could install bearings at each end of the motor capable of running at 5,000 rpm for 10,000 hours before they fail MTBF (Mean time Before Failure) however if the bypassed motor is then capable of running at 7,000 rpm that MTBF may drop to 2,000 as the additional heat generated could be beyond the tolerance of the bearing.

No idea on failure rates but it could be in the manufacturer's interest to make them as hard as possible to bypass.

The thing is the motors are already capable of much higher speeds....as the motors are the same for uk/eu 15.6mph and the US/canada 20mph....its just the software thats different. If you dont change the software and just move or hoodwink the sensors then its easy to gain the higher assist speeds

But with this new motor, the software being used can sense a change in the motor, speed, cadence etc etc sensors that all work in sync to deliver the assist.....hoodwink one sensor then its shutdown into limp mode and back to the store for a reset, as only bosch regulated suppliers can have the PC software to update and service their motors....

 

[fossyant]

A couple of the e-MTB riders I've ridden with have said the 'big' manufacturers know if it's been 'chipped' - something to do with chips on the battery to monitor discharge rates - hence voided warranty.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

The thing is the motors are already capable of much higher speeds....as the motors are the same for uk/eu 15.6mph and the US/canada 20mph....its just the software thats different. If you dont change the software and just move or hoodwink the sensors then its easy to gain the higher assist speeds.

Is this fact or guesswork? not in the cycle industry but quite often is other manufacturing industry I've known effectively the same item made to different standards for different markets, it is only evident by the suffix, EU, US ZA etc.

 

[jowwy]

Is this fact or guesswork? not in the cycle industry but quite often is other manufacturing industry I've known effectively the same item made to different standards for different markets, it is only evident by the suffix, EU, US ZA etc.

It’s fact.....on a different forum there are apps available for Bluetooth enabled motors so the software can be changed to make it into the USA spec speed limits. Download the app, attached to it to the motor and switch between us/ uk spec

 

[glasgowcyclist]

as the motors are the same for uk/eu 15.6mph and the US/canada 20mph....its just the software thats different.

Do you know if they use the same motor for their 25kph bikes as their 45kph ones?

I was looking at some online today and the difference in price was around €1100 more for the 45kph. I'd be miffed if I was after a 45kph and all it needed was a software update from the slower setting for that money.

I'll be happy with the slower one, just curious.

 

[jowwy]

Do you know if they use the same motor for their 25kph bikes as their 45kph ones?

I was looking at some online today and the difference in price was around €1100 more for the 45kph. I'd be miffed if I was after a 45kph and all it needed was a software update from the slower setting for that money.

I'll be happy with the slower one, just curious.

Not sure on 45kph as it may need more than the 250w motor output.....but I am sure on the US / UK versions

As I posted before I’m on lots of forums and not just cycling.....as I’m also a custom club builder (golf) so I’m on those forums too

 

[CXRAndy]

Better get my custom firmware kit ordered

 

[gbb]

Is it possible the higher spec/speed US motors are using better spec internal components and bearings to cope with the higher loads etc...but still using the same electronics and software ?

 

[jowwy]

Is it possible the higher spec/speed US motors are using better spec internal components and bearings to cope with the higher loads etc...but still using the same electronics and software ?

There are no US motors...the motors are the same

Im on an E bike forum with us/uk/eu/aus/nz/can members and all the ebikes us the same motor whether its shimano, brose, yamaha, bosch etc etc its just different software

Ebikemotion - orbea is one motor
Fazua only one motor
Ribble - ebikemotion one motor

 

[johnblack]

How do you mean? I'm not sure that there's much public consciousness as yet, period.

This. I think the amount of people who know or have this as a reason for not liking / wanting an electric bike would be tiny.

 

[CXRAndy]

But with this new motor, the software being used can sense a change in the motor, speed, cadence etc etc sensors that all work in sync to deliver the assist.....hoodwink one sensor then its shutdown into limp mode and back to the store for a reset, as only bosch regulated suppliers can have the PC software to update and service their motors....

At the moment, it will find its way onto the internet.

I've just ordered a 'open software' TSDZ2 motor kit. I can limit max current/power ,it has over temperature control, speed control and then various setup screen to display Watts/cadence/WattHours usage or remaining. It even has a walk assist- I suppose useful as these bikes are 15kg plus