New cycling infrastructure - a noteworthy obstacle is cyclists themselves, apparently.

[oxoman]

The problem is most town cycle routes are only a few metres long and implemented in a ad-hoc manner. Ones that are done half decently tend to be city's only.

 

[Drago]

If anyone believes car drivers can be trained/retrained/persuaded to treat cyclist/pedestrians as per the Highway Code you probably thought Brexit would stop the immigration problem. Complete cuckoo land.

Yet in other countries drivers are largely able to do this. The Netherlands being the obvious example.

And why the need to insult people simply because you disagree with them?

 

[oxoman]

I worked in Holland for a bit and most dutch cyclists rode responsibly unlike alot of the Immigrants. The other thing i saw was when an accident did occur the driver got short shrift from the police.

 

[classic33]

An inevitable consequence of separating different categories of traffic is that those streams of traffic will then have to cross each other at junctions. If you don't want conflict with other classes of vehicle at crossover points, don't separate them in the first place.

In the example I gave, the cyclist is expected to go down the left- hand side, into the bike box/to the ASL. Then cross two maybe three lanes of traffic. The proper way of dealing with the junction would be to be in the correct lane to begin with, not crossing traffic at the head of three lanes to get into the correct position.

The lanes currently "in use" are of the painted variety. The newer ones going in are separated, and are to be mandatory.

 

[YMFB]

I'm sure if a ped was hit or injured by a cyclist on our local disused railway tracks, the keyboard warriors would be all over the local FB groups... but i can't recall a single incident.

Only the Lancaster-Morecambe track has a segregation line, the others don't and work just as well. It's just a case of cyclists giving way to peds which so far as I can tell, is working.

I think that’s probably the same as we cycled on day one of our WOTR last year. There were plenty of pedestrians and cyclists getting along just fin.

Not dissimilar to the paths on the Devon C2C and in Cornwall, not just the Camel trail. Not to far from here the successful Strawberry line (not used it yet) and the Bath to Frome line.

They make excellent facilities for both cyclists and pedestrian, possibly equestrians as well although I can’t immediately recall seeing them on these trails.

 

[YMFB]

Yet in other countries drivers are largely able to do this. The Netherlands being the obvious example.

And why the need to insult people simply because you disagree with them?

No insults from me. As a cyclist, motorcyclist first and foremost and having driven most of the U.K. Europe, the East coast of Australia and ridden across the US, plus others, this is my observation.

The standard of driving in the U.K. is poor.

Beijing, a place I have visited a number of times has a significant number of bicycles, like The Netherlands it has always been more cyclist friendly. Bicycles in these locations are possibly more prevalent because they are largely flat by comparison with most U.K. cities.

 

[Drago]

No insults from me.

Er...

...you probably thought Brexit would stop the immigration problem. Complete cuckoo land.

At best that's not a very constructive dialogue, at worst it's puerile insulting at several levels.

The fact remains that most drivers are reasonably well behaved, or at least benign, around cyclists. If one driver can do it there's no reason another can't, beyond a lack of will from either themselves or legislators. Why on earth should we not campaign and call for universally high standards among road users? It would be a lot less expensive than building segregated tarmac all over the place.

Which brings us to the other end of the problem. Anyone who thinks we're going to get segregated tarmac for every metre of every journey any cyclist anywhere is likely to make is the one living in an asylum.

 

[mjr]

If you don't want conflict with other classes of vehicle at crossover points, don't separate them in the first place.

Only if you put a low enough speed limit on the motorists or forbid them from overtaking, else you've got conflict points everywhere.

It's also less than great bathing cyclists in motorists' pollution. Even being just a few metres to the side massively reduces the noxious dose.

 

[Drago]

It's also less than great bathing cyclists in motorists' pollution. Even being just a few metres to the side massively reduces the noxious dose.

See above. Do you realistically expect segregation for every single metre every journey? Physically and economically it's an impossibility. I want a hair transplant and 5 minutes alone with Rosamund Pike, and that's more likely to happen than a universal network of segregated tarmac. We will always have to coexist on the road.

It can't and won't happen.

Oh, and if cyclists stopped buying as much consumer sheet and driving our cars there wouldn't be so much pollution. We're part of that problem, and as an overall user group we're not as conveniently distinct and detached from motorised road users as many would like to think.

 

[classic33]

The new(planned mandatory) lane on the right in the picture, will be to the left of a left turn only lane. Assuming they keep the current planned setup. You're required to use it even if going straight on.

Less than the length of a bus, and it begins where the two signs in the lane are. Right after a dropped kerb for a new light controlled pedestrian crossing is due to go. So you'll be stopping to turn into a lane that will have another set of lights controlling the three roads.
The yellow box is due to disappear as well.

 

[Alex321]

View attachment 774798
The new(planned mandatory) lane on the right in the picture, will be to the left of a left turn only lane. Assuming they keep the current planned setup. You're required to use it even if going straight on.

Less than the length of a bus, and it begins where the two signs in the lane are. Right after a dropped kerb for a new light controlled pedestrian crossing is due to go. So you'll be stopping to turn into a lane that will have another set of lights controlling the three roads.
The yellow box is due to disappear as well.

What are they going to do0 to actually make it mandatory?

That requires a traffic order banning cycles from the relevant stretch of road.

AFAIK, it will be the first mandatory cycle lane anywhere in the UK, and it just doesn't make sense.

 

[classic33]

What are they going to do0 to actually make it mandatory?

That requires a traffic order banning cycles from the relevant stretch of road.

AFAIK, it will be the first mandatory cycle lane anywhere in the UK, and it just doesn't make sense.

No idea as to what they plan on doing to make it mandatory, but the plans show mandatory, and at the public consultations when this was questioned we were told that's what they'd be.

It has the backing of the West Yorkshire mayor, who's keen on firsts.

 

[lazybloke]

A mandatory bike lane is one marked with a solid line., meaning cars must not use it.

Cyclists can use it, or not, as they wish.

 

[Drago]

No idea as to what they plan on doing to make it mandatory, but the plans show mandatory, and at the public consultations when this was questioned we were told that's what they'd be.

Some kind of TRO, perhaps? Probably unenforceable ans a breach of at least the spirit of the TRO regs but I guess that wouldn't stop them.

 

[YMFB]

See above. Do you realistically expect segregation for every single metre every journey? Physically and economically it's an impossibility. I want a hair transplant and 5 minutes alone with Rosamund Pike, and that's more likely to happen than a universal network of segregated tarmac. We will always have to coexist on the road.

It can't and won't happen.

Oh, and if cyclists stopped buying as much consumer sheet and driving our cars there wouldn't be so much pollution. We're part of that problem, and as an overall user group we're not as conveniently distinct and detached from motorised road users as many would like to think.

Like almost every problem in life, a Multi faceted response is required.

Despite understanding that physical separation is the only way to guarantee safety for pedestrians and cyclists I realise it’s not achievable, just as driver training isn’t.

Advanced or further driver/training is widely available in the U.K., how many do it? Without ongoing and regular eyesight and skills testing driving/riding skills deteriorate with bad habits becoming the norm.

I have undertaken advanced motorcycle training with IAM & RoSPA, I retest every three years and have done for over 20 years. I regularly read the Highway Code. As a diabetic my eyesight is tested every two years. Perhaps the first step to improving driver training is that anyone who drives as part of their work or over 70 should retest on a regular basis.

In many urban areas the infrastructure in the Netherlands favours pedestrians and cyclists, how many places in the U.K. can boast anything remotely close to that. Coexistence is much easier when the main hazard is more aware and physically separated.

me im off to cycle on this lovely Sunday morning