New cycling infrastructure - a noteworthy obstacle is cyclists themselves, apparently.

[Drago]

Oh, top trumps, eh?

In that case please allow my to show you my Lamborhini Countach card - I'm a retired copper who used to teach advanced driving. That's proper advanded driving to coppers, not the watered down civilian 'advanded" which is actually a lower level than police "standard".

Indeed, I was taught to drive by my Dad who was a RoSPA instructor and I was a civilian gold certificate holder before I'd even passed my driving test (my first test was cancelled due to fog so the observation drive I had booked for soon after actually took place on L plates, dual carriageway taking the place of the motorway for this purpose.)

The most dangerous sector of driving society, in terms of the disproportionate number of smacks they have compared to their numbers, is the under 30s. They ace the over 70s by some margin, so if we're using the likelihood of of a driver having a smack as a yardstick then the under 30s should be retested every two years first.

I would agree that anyone who drives for work above and beyond simply driving themselves from A to B should hold a professional licence, with strict training to obtain it and penalties for abusing it. It's a nonsense that some of the worst drivers are "professionals", but hardly surprising seeing as they're some of the worst paid out there. Businesses aren't likely to attract either top talent or conscientious characters for the abysmal salaries drivers earn.

 

[oxoman]

Only if you put a low enough speed limit on the motorists or forbid them from overtaking, else you've got conflict points everywhere.

It's also less than great bathing cyclists in motorists' pollution. Even being just a few metres to the side massively reduces the noxious dose.

As a cyclist of a certain age I well remember walking and biking to school in winter with cars and lorries belching out fumes from manual chokes and leaded petrol. Obviously things have changed a lot, no lead, manual chokes left back in history and cars have better emission control nowadays. Drivers back then had respect and didn't try to knock you off for shoots and giggles like some.

 

[Drago]

Although BITD we were expected to firmly know our place as cyclists, ie, officially in the gutter.

 

[Profpointy]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...undermine-uk-cycle-lane-planning-report-finds

TBH I'd be rude too if asked to ride on some of the deathtrap infrastructure round here.

But this also highlights a concerning issue that those in authority are considering social media chatter and nonsense when formulating policy.

I have read the article twice now and whatever point they are making seems extremely garbled . The headline seems to blame cyclists almost like you'd expect from the daily heil, yet I infer (though it's unclear) from the content some of more toxic and crazy hostility seems to be anti-cycling types. Anyone else managed to work out what point they are making, if any

 

[Profpointy]

As a cyclist of a certain age I well remember walking and biking to school in winter with cars and lorries belching out fumes from manual chokes and leaded petrol. Obviously things have changed a lot, no lead, manual chokes left back in history and cars have better emission control nowadays. Drivers back then had respect and didn't try to knock you off for shoots and giggles like some.

I don't think driving was better back then. I had some horrific near misses as a kid, with cars trying to squeeze you into a parked car, or an artic pulling into the curb such that I had to jump on the pavement when it pulled to halt where I was. Cycling profficiency training made things worse as we were told to ride a foot from the kerb

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Rounds here the cycle lanes are generally good

until they are not - especially when they end
in many cases I have no idea wher this is - just after a while the cyclepath/pavement becomes narrower and start wondering if it is still a cycle path or not
at which point it probably isn't but they didn;t do anything to tell you or give way of getting off it!!


Teh worst things I have seen - in terms of design - are the advanced stop sections of traffic lights where bikes can stop ahead of the cars

if you look at the road marking it is clear that bikes are supposed to ride up the segregated cycle lane on the left
enter the bike only stop section on the left
Then, if they are turning right, then move across all the stopped car until they are in front of the right turn lane


Yeah right!

that is relaly going to result in a calm and considered response from the car drivers
and what in the name of all the Gods you are supposed to do if you are half way across when the lights change is anyones guess!!!




I reckon that an exeprienced and sensible (!) local cyclist should take the designers of all cycle lanes and take them through how it is supposed ot work

that would get rid of all the cycle lanes that last for 4m before a pedeestrain crossing then stop
and make things like "end of cycle lane" signs more common - which a sensible re-entry system to the road without needing to stop!


anyway - I'll carry on dreaming

 

[Drago]

I have read the article twice now and whatever point they are making seems extremely garbled .

Indeed, one expects no less from The Guardian I'm afraid.

 

[classic33]

Rounds here the cycle lanes are generally good

until they are not - especially when they end
in many cases I have no idea wher this is - just after a while the cyclepath/pavement becomes narrower and start wondering if it is still a cycle path or not
at which point it probably isn't but they didn;t do anything to tell you or give way of getting off it!!

Teh worst things I have seen - in terms of design - are the advanced stop sections of traffic lights where bikes can stop ahead of the cars

if you look at the road marking it is clear that bikes are supposed to ride up the segregated cycle lane on the left
enter the bike only stop section on the left
Then, if they are turning right, then move across all the stopped car until they are in front of the right turn lane

Yeah right!

that is relaly going to result in a calm and considered response from the car drivers
and what in the name of all the Gods you are supposed to do if you are half way across when the lights change is anyones guess!!!


I reckon that an exeprienced and sensible (!) local cyclist should take the designers of all cycle lanes and take them through how it is supposed ot work

that would get rid of all the cycle lanes that last for 4m before a pedeestrain crossing then stop
and make things like "end of cycle lane" signs more common - which a sensible re-entry system to the road without needing to stop!


anyway - I'll carry on dreaming

I once offered to take half a dozen councillors, who were convinced by what they were reading, on a short trip through the town centre. One area they claimed was ideal for cycling in.

Nothing came of it. The most common excuse, after the "no bike" one was "it's too dangerous".

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Some cycle lanes round here are quite well thought out
There is one near Sankey Bridges (by Lidl for locals) which neatly allows bikes to avoid the traffic lights if they are turning left - as most would if they know the area
then puts you back on the road in a sensible way (well - not too bad anyway)

Other just basically downgrade cyclists to pedestrians so you have to stop and wait for cars to go first

again - cyclist would see that right away
which leads me to suspect they are designed by people who do not cycle

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I once offered to take half a dozen councillors, who were convinced by what they were reading, on a short trip through the town centre. One area they claimed was ideal for cycling in.

Nothing came of it. The most common excuse, after the "no bike" one was "it's too dangerous".

It would be a good idea for a few of them to do that - either them of the designers
They could use an ebike if they don;t normally cycle

not going to happen - but that doesn;t make it a bad idea!!

 

[Baldy]

again - cyclist would see that right away
which leads me to suspect they are designed by people who do not cycle

They're not allowed to know anything about cycling, even knowing what a bike is disqualifies anyone from working in the planning office. We can't have council staff knowing what they're talking about can we.

 

[Mike_P]

which leads me to suspect they are designed by people who do not cycle

Definitely, a local one northbound ends up on a shared pavement on the wrong side of the road and terminates at a pedestrian crossing. There is no cycling markings on the road until beyond the junction and the pedestrian crossing on that side of the junction. Snag is both crossings work together so a cyclist is in immediate conflict with pedestrians using that other crossing. The cycle path should have been set out connecting to that other crossing.

 

[classic33]

They're not allowed to know anything about cycling, even knowing what a bike is disqualifies anyone from working in the planning office. We can't have council staff knowing what they're talking about can we.

That could be why we overpaid for a cycling Tzar. An American who'd never ridden on-road, and never ridden a bike at all in the UK, at anything but closed cycle events in parks.
The roads here were absolutely foreign to her and she lasted less than a year.

 

[wiggydiggy]

I’d like more cycle routes on former train tracks. The only way to ensure safety of cyclists and pedestrians is complete physical segregation, clearly unrealistic. Painted lines and plastic bollards are not good enough.

I do quite a bit of riding on greenways, they're great as leisure routes but not as good as a dedicated cycle routes with separation of cyclists and other users. Plus some of them are pretty bad at being looked after. One near me was recently resurfaced (great) but only for half it's length as it crossed from one one council to another and only 1 of them wanted to spend the money.

Plus if we turn them all into greenways, there's no chance of them ever reopening as a rail route. Some have started to be reopened - the Waverly route in Scotland has been partially reopened for instance.

 

[Mike_P]

The Nidderdale Greenway in parts uses the trackbed of the Harrogate-Ripon-Northalleton railway. Reopening it to Ripon at least keeps being proposed and the Greenway is said to be "unaffected" as only a single railway track would be laid. Snag is without crossing and recrossing the railway the msin view of the Nidd Gorge from Bilton viaduct would not be available, instead just a view dominated by a sewerage works

That Greenway is properly surfaced unlike others. IMO cycle route signage should show either a road bike if properly surfaced or a MTB if not to give those not familiar with it sone indication of the surface.