New Guidelines for Mobile Phones

[Cab]

It's not a petty crime is it though, presumably it'll only become worth bothering about when there's an accident and the use of a phone will give the prosecution and easy conviction

It'll be treated as petty by the CPS and plod if the potential punishment is relatively small. Thats why, when its actually quite a seriously dangerous thing to do, it should be treated as a serious offense. Evidence is that its up there with drink driving, surely the punishment should be similar?

 

[Arch]

As it stands, or as it might stand if this recommendation goes through...

If a copper pulls someone up for using a phone, because they just happen to have spotted them doing it, it's a fine (£60?) and 6? (or 3?) points. If a person is seen driving erratically or is in an accident, and phone use is proved to be an issue, they could could go jail, because it would now be classed as Dangerous Driving. Of course, the damage may well be done, if that person's actions have hurt or killed someone, or damaged their property....

My question is: If a copper pulls someone up in the first situation, is the Fixed Penalty Ticket the most they can do, or do they have the power to take it to court if they choose? Seems to me that if someone has to cause an accident to be nicked for dangerous driving, the damage is done, and they may well have learned their lesson anyway. It's those who think "well, I'm alright, I can manage" that are the danger, because they don't know they can't manage until they hit someone, no matter how much you tell them. Most people, I think, assume that they are better than average drivers...

In the long run, why not build signal blockers into cars? I have no idea if such a thing exists, but if you could stop a phone working inside a car, there's the answer. (although there's a safety issue in terms of breakdowns, I admit). And then they could build them into cinemas and so on as well...

 

[NickM]

Tynan is spot on. I think Sharia-style punishment would be absolutely appropriate - cut a finger off for each offence.

Bugger me, Arch, I hardly ever come in Commuting (but I've decided to do no work today or tomorrow) and when I do, here you are... is that thesis all written in the middle of the night?

 

[Pete]

In the long run, why not build signal blockers into cars? I have no idea if such a thing exists, but if you could stop a phone working inside a car, there's the answer. (although there's a safety issue in terms of breakdowns, I admit). And then they could build them into cinemas and so on as well...

No. It's perfectly legal for a passenger to use a hand-held. It's also legal, and sometimes necessary, to make a 999 call, even whilst driving.

Regarding 'shopping' of offenders ... has anyone actually done it? I can think of only one single instance, in my life, when I have shopped a motorist. And that was for a physical assault upon my person by a passenger, a totally different state of affairs. I think that being seen apparently taking down a registration number (and don't forget make/colour of car: police will want that), especially if you look like a responsible sort of person, can put the willies up a motorist and perhaps knock some sense into them. I often do note down numberplates: memorise the number, then when I've found a quiet place to stop, note it down as a memo in my own phone. I never get round to reporting it though . But perhaps to be seen visibly using your phone, or a notebook, to note down details whilst still in view of the offender, might carry more impact.

I think wearing my yellow hi-viz jacket helps, as well...

 

[Pete]

Tynan is spot on. I think Sharia-style punishment would be absolutely appropriate - cut a finger off for each offence.

Leave the little finger till last please! At least they can still text words like "WYZYWYX WZYZZY".... I can see a whole new craze in texting in Polish, springing up...

 

[Pete]

I stopped to listen in as she got FPNs for using her mobile AND entering an ASL!

Let's hope that:

FPN + FPN = XX99​

(or whatever they call it, these days)

 

[Arch]

No. It's perfectly legal for a passenger to use a hand-held. It's also legal, and sometimes necessary, to make a 999 call, even whilst driving.

D'oh. I knew there was a flaw...

Lead lined driver's cab then?

Maz.... Thesis? Er, um... yeah.... Acutally, I've been having time off for personal reasons since September, so I just sit here all day cyclechatting. Mind you, I did that before anyway....

 

[Arch]

I stopped to listen in as she got FPNs for using her mobile AND entering an ASL!

You can't put a price on a moment as beautiful as that, can you....

 

[NickM]

You don't reckon a bit of thesising might be helpful eventually? I know how hard it is to construct a cogent argument when your mind is not on top form, but even so...

Tell me to bugger off if you like

 

[Pete]

No it's not legal to make a 999 call whilst driving, although you could argue a necessity defence which a court might accept.

See clause 5 (a)

 

[Arch]

You don't reckon a bit of thesising might be helpful eventually? I know how hard it is to construct a cogent argument when your mind is not on top form, but even so...

Tell me to bugger off if you like

No. no, you're quite right. There have been moments recently when the motivation has almost returned, so I think maybe it's a New Year, clean sweep sort of thing to do. I have until May, officially (well, that's the length of extention Ive been promised), but I'll have to get a job after Chirstmas, so maybe I can get a new routine going...

To anyone starting a PhD. Know why you want to do it, and prepare backup reasons for if your inital motivation subsides halfway through.

Anyway, back to mobile phones, as you were....

If I didn't know that it might attrack the wrong sort of jobsworths, I'd suggest a separate force of traffic enforcers, even voluntary perhaps. It seems the key is to catch people, and with so many drivers on the roads, it needs far more eyes and ears than the police seem able to provide. I suppose that was the sort of thinkng behind PCSOs, but they seem not be all that effective (I don't mean that personally, I mean they seem to be regarded with contempt). If there were a small army of responsible citizens out there, armed with notebooks and willing to spend an hour standing by the road and taking down registrations, and a central reporting system, maybe more people would get caught and eventually, people would learn. Make them plain clothed. You'd only need one at each major junction in a city, they'd spot loads... Of course, how you prove someone was using their phone if they then claim they weren't, I don't know. Perhaps you have system of warning letters "You have been seen using a phone whie driving, the next report will result in a fine" sort of thing, and hope it shakes them up.

Actually the chap on Today said that roadside surveys (presumably people standing watchng traffic go by) suggested that phone use had halved (from 3% to 1.5%). Whereas we all seem to feel we see it more and more. Are we all just looking harder? Or are we in the right place to see it?

 

[NickM]

...I think maybe it's a New Year, clean sweep sort of thing to do...

Good for you

 

[Plax]

The trouble with drivers on mobile phones is that if a police officer does see them, they are inevitably going in the opposite direction to them. usually in heavy traffic, so by the time they've turned round etc the offender is miles away and off the phone. So unfortunately it isn't practical or safe in many instances to stop them. It doesn't justify the use of blues & twos and overtaking of other cars to get to them when it isn't an emergency as your potentially putting other road users at risk then.

I had a good one several months back. Was driving along the A55, fairly light traffic and a white van driver was right up my arse. I was quite incensed by the fact he had the audacity to practically tailgate me when there was no reason he couldn't over take me. So I sped up a bit to try and distance myself, and in my rear view mirror saw that he was on his mobile. At that moment an unmarked police car was overtaking, and noticed that he was on his mobile and pulled him over.

 

[summerdays]

Of course, how you prove someone was using their phone if they then claim they weren't, I don't know.

The mobile phone companies can prove who (well not who but whether the phone was used) was on the phone... my hubby (worked for Orange at the time) was involved in providing evidence in a court case. Of course its not really in the mobile phones interests to go round providing that sort of information I guess other than for a criminal investigation. But I guess they could use the statement .. the mobile records can be checked.

 

[Pete]

I suppose, if I got involved in a real 'incident' involving a mobile phone user, the first thing I'd try and do is grab the phone in question. Stop the owner surreptitiously erasing the 'call register', you must understand. And with the declared intention of handing the phone over to the first uniformed police officer on the scene, you must understand, so it couldn't be called theft.

I could try the argument that I confiscated the phone 'to prevent further danger to the public', should the offender drive off...