New non drive side crank - need a hand!

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ChrisEyles

Guru
Location
Devon
My friend needs a new non drive side crank. It’s on a mega exo fsa bottom bracket. The current crank is an fsa team issue carbon. It looks like it’s got a self extracting bolt so I assume you remove it by undoing this, however it currently seems to be seized solid.

Since my knowledge of cranks stops at square tapers could anyone advise o;an appropriate replacement crank and if this is the correct way to remove it.

Thanks!
 

Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
It just unscrews which extracts the crank, here’s a video. Seems odd that it’s ‘seized’, maybe a good soaking in WD40 or some such or give it a bit more welly.


View: https://youtu.be/1y9jfwVrmrc
 
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ChrisEyles

ChrisEyles

Guru
Location
Devon
Brilliant, thanks guys. If it had been one of my bikes I'd have just given it some welly, but it's a bit different when working on a friend's one, especially since it's a lot more expensive and fragile looking than anything I'm ever likely to own myself!

I'll lend him my honking big allen key and that should do the trick to get the crank off.
 
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ChrisEyles

ChrisEyles

Guru
Location
Devon
Any recommendations for a replacement crank?

Again I'm not really sure what the compatibility is between all the new types of BBs - does it have to be specifically made for a mega exo BB, or will any crank designed for a splined BB do?

They seem quite pricey compared to a square taper one!
 
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ChrisEyles

ChrisEyles

Guru
Location
Devon
That's great, thanks. I'll recommend my friend looks for a 2nd hand hollowtech left hand crank in that case. (Though I have a horrid feeling he may end up taking it to the bike shop and spending an unecessary fortune, he is a bit spanner-phobic).

I must admit I don't entirely understand the principle behind these hollow splined BBs. The hollowtech cranks look like they have a pinch bolt to keep the crank locked on the (hollow) spindle, while the FSA ones seem to lack this. Is it just a bit like a non-tapered splined version of the square tapered BBs I'm used to? If so what's to keep the crank from moving inboard towards the BB shell - is there a raised lip to stop it moving this way any further? Couldn't quite see from the video link posted above.

What's the general consensus, are they actually a genuine step forward from square tapered or is it more a case of marketing BS than a better BB? At least they can't be as bad to work with as cottered cranks!
 

Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
That's great, thanks. I'll recommend my friend looks for a 2nd hand hollowtech left hand crank in that case. (Though I have a horrid feeling he may end up taking it to the bike shop and spending an unecessary fortune, he is a bit spanner-phobic).

What's the general consensus, are they actually a genuine step forward from square tapered or is it more a case of marketing BS than a better BB? At least they can't be as bad to work with as cottered cranks!

If he’s got a carbon crank I’m sure he’ll want to replace like with like.

Regarding the debate between old square taper and newer systems you could start a new thread on this! The idea of the MegaEXO, hollowtech and others is that the bearings are outboard of the B.B. shell giving a larger bearing area and the hollow spindle saves weight, the whole thing is meant to be stiffer. The PF30 pioneered by Cannondale and other press fit systems is that it is easier and cheaper to manufacture but you may have read of the creaking problems with it. The manufacturing tolerances need to be very tight.

You might find this interesting:


View: https://youtu.be/x8nJyMRIv68
 
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ChrisEyles

ChrisEyles

Guru
Location
Devon
Thanks @Cycleops, that's really interesting.

The retro-grouch in me tends to worry about planned obsolescence and reduced durability driving regular necessary "upgrades" of modern parts... but I guess that has always been the case for high-end components in pretty much any hobby!

I imagine you're right and that he'll want to go for a new carbon crank to replace the broken one... another case where I'm too behind the times to offer him useful advice!
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
I don't entirely understand the principle behind these hollow splined BBs. What's the general consensus, are they actually a genuine step forward from square tapered or is it more a case of marketing BS than a better BB?

@Yellow Saddle provided a potted 'history' of BBs last year which bears re-posting:

"First we had cotter pin. Cotters were problematic but were eventually replaced by the square taper, which was brilliant. It allowed lightweight aluminium cranks to be securely fastened to steel crank spindles without any problems of precession and lash, both problems with the cotter. (Note that I'm referring to a British cotter, not American cotter).

"Then the weight weenies came around and questioned the solid BB axle and asked for something to be make lighter. Shimano responded with the Octalink BB. It fitted into existing BSA BB shells and thus didn't require a frame redesign. However, the enlarged axle required smaller bearings so that the assembly could fit into the limited space inside the BB shell. This reduced the bearing durability. Further, the advent of MTBing meant that people now jumped their bikes whilst standing on the cranks one foot forward, one 180 degrees to the back. This put huge strain on the axle and the short Octalink spines could not provide enough stiffness and the flex inside the splines caused the crank bolt to unscrew on the one crank pointing backwards. Visualise this is the bolt head moving backwards with the flexing inside the crank eye but not returning with the backlash. This caused the shallow splines to strip. In addition to that problem, the splines were blind and assembly had to be very accurate, otherwise the spindle peeled pieces of spline and ruined the spline as the bolt is tightened. Then Shimano invented Octalink II without acknowledging the mistakes of what was not suddenly Octalink I. Octalink II solved the lash problem but not the bearing problem. Shimano even attempted to use roller bearings in its high-end Octalink cranks but these failed prematurely as well since roller bearings don't work well in grease where the grease is pushed away from the bearing and not returned as with a ball bearing.

"Then a repeat of the Betamax vs VHS story started. Shimano refused to license Octalink (or the Americans refused to buy a licence) and a consortium of American companies then reverse engineered their own version of Ocatllnk, called the ISIS spline. It had not 8 as in Shimano, but 9 splines and a different spline shape. This all to avoid patent licence fees. Octalink, Octalink I, Octalink II and ISIS are all rubbish.

"Shimano then decided that it will re-invent the BB again and came up with Hollowtech. This was a two-piece crank with a 24mm spindle and an externally mounted pair of bearings. The crank press-fit into the bearings, separated by a plastic spacer between crank and bearing race. The idea was to save weight, provide a stiff spindle by going oversize and create larger bearings but place them outside of the still-standard BB shell. Unfortunately the spindle was not stiff enough and the left hand bearing now fails prematurely because the spindle flexes on the left. Remember that torque is only transmitted through the spindle from the left crank, not the right. For a long time people thought their left BB cup failed because a bike is laid down on its left side and water inside the BB was damaging the left bearing. However, it was the flexing spindle that pulls the sensitive deep groove bearing to run against the sides of its grooves and bind. Also astonishingly, the bearing balls were still too small for the job. Although the bearing diameter increased, the balls stayed small and they packed more of them in rather than bulk up the assembly a bit.

"A BB redesign was called for and national pride meddled with good design. Cannondale, Bullseye and some other American companies then perpetrated BB30. It had a large (30mm) spindle to prevent some of the flexing found in Hollowtech and to supposedly save the customer maintenance cost, fitted two standard industrial deep groove bearings directly into a redesigned oversized shell. This was a big mistake, especially in hindsight when frames were made from carbon. The BB shell on an aluminium bike is a fragile, highly stressed component. It is a little thin-shell transverse tube with four major welds connecting it to the top tube, seat tube and two chainstays. This welding distorts the shell. This happened with old BBs as well but now with BB30, the bearing was fitted directly into the shell by press-fit. Tolerances had to be very high [?low] if you don't want the bearing to bind because of out-of-roundness of the shell and, simultaneously you want the bearing to fit tight enough into the aluminium shell to not move and fret during hard pedaling. This is an impossible call. These bearings all move and creak. The Japanese had some wisdom in using a screw-in system and sticking with it. Further, the bearings in BB30 are not far enough outboard to prevent the aluminium crank spindle from flexing and causing lateral loading of the bearing. That's why it fails so quickly.
BB30 became an even worse idea when frames turned to carbon. Now the BB shell was too soft to accept a steel bearing directly and, cannot be machined even close enough to good enough tolerance in anyway. Out came another shell redesign and we got BB30 Presssfit. This called for the bearing to be housed in a plastic cup which is then pressed into the imperfect frame aperture. They creak like hell and wear the shell out in an oval shape. They are terrible.

"And that's where we are today. Weight weenies, poor engineering and national pride gave us a system that is worse than the 50 year old (guessing here) square taper. No-one admits it, few mechanics understand it and they're all looking for solutions such as warranty replacements, bearing glue and hope.

"The answer will only be found once we have a new design. Don't think BB-Right provides it either."[/QUOTE]
 
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