TMN - I think you're right about Varese.
Somewhere or other there is a tape of John Cage on (I think) the Tonight Show. The thing is that these shows played to small audiences and, for all their 'zaniness' took themselves really seriously. They had no problem tilting their hat toward high culture. This was at a time when Playboy, of all things, used to employ serious writers.
For a while I lived opposite the theatre in which they taped a later version of the Steve Allen Show. Allen used to lead the audience out of the theatre and across the road to meat the 'freaks' that lived in our block. He had a point.....