No helmet

[Jaded]

So you think that the 'Magic' bit should be removed from the name then.

That makes sense.

 

[Smokin Joe]

The people who favour compulsion worry me. I never try and persuade anyone not to wear a helmet, why should I have to put up with people who want to force me to wear one?

You can have all the "sensible and meaningful" debate you want on the subject, but for me it all come down to a very basic "Mind your own business".

 

[Jaded]

Smoking Joe and I agree.

There's lovely!

 

[mr_hippo]

I've just read the whole thread and am puzzled by one thing. The people who complaining about the heat. I have heard of global warming, has it affected UK's temperature so much? I have cycled extensively in the Middle East and am now in Bangkok, it's now 5:27 am, outside temp is 28.8C (83.8F) and I'll be out in about 30 minutes and when I come back, it will be in the low 30sC. This is normal year round temp for Bangkok. When does it ever get that hot in the UK?

 

[Rhythm Thief]

You can have all the "sensible and meaningful" debate you want on the subject, but for me it all come down to a very basic "Mind your own business".

36 pages of debate condensed into two lines.
Absolutely right Smokin.

 

[Spin City]

Cunobelin: It certainly is an amazing statement for BHIT to make about the number of cycling related head injuries that could/would be prevented if helmets were compulsory. It seems to me that this organisation is never going to be taken seriously if these are the sort of claims they are making. I'm therefore concerned about how influential they actually are, if in fact they still exist.


A number of posters still have reservations about the benefits of wearing a "Foam Hat" if the wearer is involved in an incident where that person's head is impacted. Is this because (i) posters believe that they would not be protected by said "Foam Hat" in any way or are the concerns because (ii) the speed at impact may be greater than the 12mph that the current standards are set at?
What I'm trying to say is, would people be happier wearing helmets if the safety standards were increased and if so, what should the testing speed at impact be put at?

I think you can say that the "Mind your own business" comment is relevant in most current circumstances unless, of course, you are participating in an event or undertaking an activity where cycle helmet wearing is compulsory. The real issue for the "Mind your own business" contingency is if helmet wearing ever does become compulsory for general use or possibly at the present time when you are taking someone with you who you consider should definitely wear a helment for their own safety; maybe a small child, for example.

 

[ufkacbln]

Actually the "foam hat" is the answer.

If you were to wear a hat with about 12 - 18 " of foam it would offer crash protection without the problems caused by the hard shells favoured today!

 

[Chris James]

I have cycled extensively in the Middle East and am now in Bangkok, it's now 5:27 am, outside temp is 28.8C (83.8F) and I'll be out in about 30 minutes and when I come back, it will be in the low 30sC. This is normal year round temp for Bangkok. When does it ever get that hot in the UK?

Very rarely. However, you are probably used to the heat as it is ALWAYS that temperature. Even a slightly warm day comes as a shock in Yorkshire!

And cycling up very steep hills -slowly!! - (lots of them near Huddersfield), as with all hard exercise, forces up your body temperature way above the air temperature. Cycling very hard has much the same effect too, although at least at speed you get the cooling effect on the gallons of sweat you have produced.

If I wasn't cycling and I was very hot then the last thing I would choose to do is to put a large lump of insulation on my head. I find it strange that some riders seem not to notice the heating effect of helmets. I can only assume that they only ride with helmets and so don't notice the difference.

I certainly think the oft quoted suggetion that helmets actually cool your head is wide of the mark, at least at lower speeds. I have a Giro Atmos, which is supposedly a very well ventilated helmet, it certainly cost enough, but I still find it noticeable hotter and sweater than riding bare headed.

 

[Spin City]

Actually the "foam hat" is the answer.

If you were to wear a hat with about 12 - 18 " of foam it would offer crash protection without the problems caused by the hard shells favoured today!

Somehow I don't think the sort of helmet described above would become popular in races such as the Tour de France where helmet wearing is compulsory. I don't know why I think that though.

Cunobelin: This sort of comment certainly doesn't move the debate forward in any way.................

As you know, questions such as those listed below need to be debated to decide whether helmet wearing is a good thing or not:-
Is the wearing of helmets by cyclists beneficial to them if they are involved in an incident?
Does the wearing of a cycle helmet increase the likelihood of an incident and if so, under which circumstances and to what degree?
How can helmets be improved upon to increase the safety of cyclists?
If helmet wearing is of benefit to cyclists how can the number/percentage of journeys made with a helmet be increased?
etc.

 

[piedwagtail91]

Very rarely. However, you are probably used to the heat as it is ALWAYS that temperature. Even a slightly warm day comes as a shock in Yorkshire!

And cycling up very steep hills -slowly!! - (lots of them near Huddersfield), as with all hard exercise, forces up your body temperature way above the air temperature. Cycling very hard has much the same effect too, although at least at speed you get the cooling effect on the gallons of sweat you have produced.

If I wasn't cycling and I was very hot then the last thing I would choose to do is to put a large lump of insulation on my head. I find it strange that some riders seem not to notice the heating effect of helmets. I can only assume that they only ride with helmets and so don't notice the difference.

I certainly think the oft quoted suggestion that helmets actually cool your head is wide of the mark, at least at lower speeds. I have a Giro Atmos, which is supposedly a very well ventilated helmet, it certainly cost enough, but I still find it noticeable hotter and sweater than riding bare headed.

seconded.well put.i have an atmos and fully agree with your comments on it..

I'm beginning to wonder how many of the pro compulsion riders are recent
converts to the bike when helmets are readily available and fashionable and how many have been around since the 60's and 70's before any helmets were available.
i ride with people who have been cycling since the 50's and done 100's of thousands of miles with no problem. yes the main roads are busier now but the roads we use don't carry much traffic.
why should we have to wear a helmet in a hilly part of the country when we see very little traffic?
why do the pro compulsion lot want to spoil the fun of others by having their views imposed on everyone?
whats wrong with personal choice?

 

[PrettyboyTim]

I've just read the whole thread and am puzzled by one thing. The people who complaining about the heat. I have heard of global warming, has it affected UK's temperature so much? I have cycled extensively in the Middle East and am now in Bangkok, it's now 5:27 am, outside temp is 28.8C (83.8F) and I'll be out in about 30 minutes and when I come back, it will be in the low 30sC. This is normal year round temp for Bangkok. When does it ever get that hot in the UK?

It rarely gets that hot.

But wearing the helmet prevents much air getting to the head, and hence prevents the sweat produced as a result of exercise from evaporating. I've not been wearing a helmet in the last few days because it's been fairly humid and it leaves my head very sweaty if I wear it.

 

[Jaded]

As you know, questions such as those listed below need to be debated to decide whether helmet wearing is a good thing or not:-
Is the wearing of helmets by cyclists beneficial to them if they are involved in an incident?
Does the wearing of a cycle helmet increase the likelihood of an incident and if so, under which circumstances and to what degree?
How can helmets be improved upon to increase the safety of cyclists?
If helmet wearing is of benefit to cyclists how can the number/percentage of journeys made with a helmet be increased?
etc.

Your questions could introduce a level of bias. Here are some re-worded ones!

1) What effects can wearing a helmet have on a rider in an incident (note - this implies that there can be good and bad effects - unlike your question)

3) How can helmets be improved upon to increase the safety of helmet-wearing cyclists?

 

[Baggy]

Is the wearing of helmets by cyclists beneficial to them if they are involved in an incident?
Does the wearing of a cycle helmet increase the likelihood of an incident and if so, under which circumstances and to what degree?
How can helmets be improved upon to increase the safety of cyclists?
If helmet wearing is of benefit to cyclists how can the number/percentage of journeys made with a helmet be increased?
etc.

Wearing of helmets by cyclists may be beneficial if their head impacts against something at a speed which the helmet is designed to cope with.

It is my perception that drivers pass me more closely when I wear a helmet, and I think they have a de-humanising effect. Helmet = cyclist, hair = person riding a bike.
You are more likely to hit your head on something when wearing a helmet as your neck has to work harder to keep your head up, hence you are also more likely to suffer from a neck torsion injury.

I have no idea about improving helmets. Is it really going to be possible to produce something light, affordable and breathable that might offer better protection than helmets currently do?

We need to concentrate on increasing the number/percentage of journeys made by bike fulll stop to increase the safety of cyclists. Once we've achieved this perhaps we should then start worrying more about helmets.

I am more inclined to wear a helmet in town, where there is lots of street furniture etc and I'm more likely to get knocked off. As most of my riding is on A roads/back lanes I don't feel that a helmet is going to be of much benefit.

I say this as someone who unquestioningly wore a helmet for horse riding for years and would not hesitate to wear one now.

 

[Spin City]

Jaded: Yes, sorry about the slant on my questions. You are correct that the debate should be about carefully selected worded questions. Notwithstanding this, do you have any views on the sort of questions I was posing?

In reponse to your post:-
I think my question "Is the wearing of helmets by cyclists beneficial to them if they are involved in an incident?" could be answered Yes, No, Only in the following circumstances, etc but that's almost getting as pedantic as you.
I think my question "How can helmets be improved upon to increase the safety of cyclists?" necessarily implies that the cyclist would have to be wearing the helmet at the time of an incident. You could, of course, raise questions about the fit of the helmet and how well it was secured etc.

 

[Spin City]

Baggy: Thanks for your reply. I have a number of comments to make on your response, as follows:-

Are you saying that there are circumstances when a cyclist would benefit more in a head impact if they weren't wearing a helmet? Alternatively, are you saying that a helmet wouldn't be beneficial at all if the wearer's head impacts against something at a higher speed than the helmet is designed to cope with (or that the benefit would be diminished)? Please elucidate.

I'm not sure that wearing a helmet has a de-humanising effect on motor vehicle drivers although I think this may be a possible effect on some drivers. I'm not sure how how true this is or how it could be tested.

Cunobelin has already said that helmets 10 years ago provided better protection than the ones currently on sale. However, I'm not sure where this information came from or how true it is.

You raise a very interesting question about the number of journeys made overall by bicycle. I personally think that if there were more cyclists on the road then there would be more crashes/accidents involving cyclists. This, if true, would lead to more discussion about the compulsion of wearing cycle helmets.

Again, an interesting question about where cycling crashes/accidents are more likely to take place. I don't know what evidence there is about incidents being more likely to take place in urban areas. So many things to consider.............

Incidentally, isn't wearing a helmet for horse riding compulsory nowadays? You'll have to confirm or otherwise.