Not how I imagined it.

[ColinJ]

There's also nothing wrong with a bit of ruthless ambition - it's only a problem when it negatively affects others.

Which usually takes about 4 minutes!

 

[Drago]

There's nothing wrong with being proud of the fruits of your labour, whether it's a five bed exec palace or something more humble. There's also nothing wrong with a bit of ruthless ambition - it's only a problem when it negatively affects others.

True, but there is something wrong with a society that conditions people that the acquisition of more and more expensive material possessions is good, an example to strive for.

And there is nothing wrong either with ambition, but the relentless pursuit of constantly greater material wealth is a serious misuse of such a commodity. The best, wealthiest, finest bred of us can only crap on one toilet at a time, so why not invest that ruthless ambition in something that actually benefits oneself or the society in which they live?

Mr Range Rover from yesterday spent years getting to the point where he could buy his car ( assuming he didn't inherit the money or steal the car!), and for all those years ruthless ambition invested in the pursuit of that lovely vehicle was no more comfortable than I, was travelling no faster than I, so while it is a harmless enough goal in its own way its just somehow pointless. Years spent getting himself to the same stretch of tarmac at the same time as me, which I'd invested pennies to get to.

Been there, its fraught, its pointless, it doesn't bring happiness, and the only people it impresses are the sort of people you wouldn't give a sheet if you actually stopped and thought about it.

Imagine that effort and talent invested into charity work, or Search and Rescue volunteering, or some sporting endeavour, or creative writing, or learning an instrument... so many better things to direct ones ruthless ambition towards than the accumulation of ever more expensive material possessions,

 

[summerdays]

There's nothing wrong with being proud of the fruits of your labour, whether it's a five bed exec palace or something more humble. There's also nothing wrong with a bit of ruthless ambition - it's only a problem when it negatively affects others.

I don't think ambition is wrong, but I don't think it's the path to happiness.

 

[seraphina]

True, but there is something wrong with a society that conditions people that the acquisition of more and more expensive material possessions is good, an example to strive for.

And there is nothing wrong either with ambition, but the relentless pursuit of constantly greater material wealth is a serious misuse of such a commodity. The best, wealthiest, finest bred of us can only crap on one toilet at a time, so why not invest that ruthless ambition in something that actually benefits oneself or the society in which they live?

Mr Range Rover from yesterday spent years getting to the point where he could buy his car ( assuming he didn't inherit the money or steal the car!), and for all those years ruthless ambition invested in the pursuit of that lovely vehicle was no more comfortable than I, was travelling no faster than I, so while it is a harmless enough goal in its own way its just somehow pointless. Years spent getting himself to the same stretch of tarmac at the same time as me, which I'd invested pennies to get to.

Been there, its fraught, its pointless, it doesn't bring happiness, and the only people it impresses are the sort of people you wouldn't give a sheet if you actually stopped and thought about it.

Imagine that effort and talent invested into charity work, or Search and Rescue volunteering, or some sporting endeavour, or creative writing, or learning an instrument... so many better things to direct ones ruthless ambition towards than the accumulation of ever more expensive material possessions,

Some of the biggest peanuts I know work or volunteer in caring professions (for example). I worked for a research scientist who invented drugs which have saved millions of lives. His ruthless ambition (and believe me, he could be a right b*stard) also made him one of the richest men in the UK. Should he have forfeited his ambition and let those millions die? Does doing something deemed "worthy" by society for a pittance somehow make you a better person? I don't think so. I guess in the scientist's case, the wealth was an added side effect of his work, not the main goal.

I also don't see how playing a musical instrument, or working towards a sporting goal is also somehow "better" - many Olympians are not known for being placid, content souls - they are incredibly driven.

I guess the point I am trying to make, is that most people on this thread have realised that pots of cash, greasy pole climbing etc don't make them happy, and that's fine. I suspect it's a realisation that everyone has to make for themselves based on their own life experiences.

 

[Drago]

That's deep. The gents work is worthy and fulfilling, and as a scientist by training myself I can understand his drive to want to do it. While the fat cheque is nice, I bet to him it is to a large degree an incidental by product of his absorbing, interesting and worthwhile work, rather than the main goal in life itself.

And as for peanuts, chumps and dilber's, they're everywhere, but that's a different topic altogether.

 

[jonny jeez]

I guess this is the right place for this. Just fancied a little moan and to get this off my chest as my wife doesn't see my view on life.

Here's the thing: When do you accept that whatever you do with your current life, you'll never do enough to have the things you want? To live the life you want. Drive the cars, buy the houses, watches clothes and shoes. To go on a safari, explore the world and not have to worry about any financial implication? I'm finding that a tough pill to swallow at the moment.

As a young 27 year old man, currently serving, with a young daughter and a wife. I often struggle to look on the bright side of life. I'm well aware that I have my health and family. Which is great, but selfishness aside, I love tnem, and would give up everything I do have to support them. But, they don't bring the finer things in life. I spoke about this with my father a while back, I said how I felt about people having this and being able to do that and how I'm never content in life. He said he was content with life and that these things will come in time.

That's great, but got me thinking that my dad was just trying to get off the subject, as people don't really like to see where they failed in life or where they could have done things differently to enhance their life.

This led me on to the phrase 'being content with life'. This is a dangerous statement, I think. There's a whole world out there, from the very basic interaction with other humans which fulfills pride, maybe love, even makes you feel warm and fuzzy, experiences money can't buy... There's also the finer things in life, everyday luxuries and luxuries probably not worth the name. These also fill you up, these can be bought.

At my age, selfishly, I can say that the luxuries are important to me. My perception of luxuries I mean. Now my dad says that you'll get that as you get older, with savings, with experience etc. I say bollocks. Why can't I have them now? Because I have a daughter, wife, house to run, cars to pay for, money to worry about. The list goes on. I'm sure some would love that, but humans are humans and we take things for granted, I'm no different.

So, if I'm going to continue my journey into self pity and woeful appreciation for my own life. Where, or when, will the time come that I can accept that the 5 bedroom house isn't possible. When can I accept that driving that ridiculous BMW or Audi isn't ever possible. That I'll continue to have to live in service provided accommodation as I simply can't afford a deposit for a house. When will I accept that I'll be forever paying off debts and never experiencing these things?

I'm sure there must come a time that we all become 'content'. But that scares the shoot out of me. I don't ever want to be content. Not until I've owned the luxuries I've spoken about above and experienced all I can. But, like any other dreamer, I live for the last Friday of the month, before dwindling into realisation that a new set of shoes is out of the question this month and I'll make do with that t shirt for the next 6 months.

Disclaimer, as I'm sure there's a wealth of people with a life a lot harder and a lot less fulfilled than mine due to whatever circumstances. I'm just an average joe, wanting and wishing to be more than that. I can also assure you that no member of my family goes without, and to many we are well off. I just want more.

Views? lol.

I'm am going to risk appearing really arrogant but ill stick my neck out ...for the cause.

I suspect the things that you relate to as "happiness" are driven by external forces. Seeing the impossible lifestyles of the kardashians every millisecond, the "dream"lives of celebs and billionaires, Reading "lifestyle"magazines and generally falling into the trap of feeling over entitled...will ultimately lead to disappointment.

There are billions upon billions of people in the world and a tiny fraction of them have the things you may dream of...its just not real.

Now for the arrogant bit, I am about 20 years older than you and I have, or have had a lot of the things that you talk about. Range rover sport, bmw convertible, £150k salary, house in suburbia, nice holidays lots of travel, 2 kids, nice clothes, gadgets, etc...
I can tell you that about 5 years ago I just got tired of being in that lifestyle and I found myself longing for simpler times when my wife and I lived in a beautiful but tiny 2 bed cottage. We had no debt...or no income for that matter!...had no real work worries and very little stress beyond how to best decorate the house.

So I started to declutter my life, sold the daft car that could have funded a small mortgage, stopped taking extravagant holidays, stopped trying to live up to a lifestyle that i didn't really enjoy (although I thought I would...longed for it in fact) and now invest my salary in paying off debts In the pursuit of what i hope will be true freedom and happiness.

But the thing is, if some old bloke had told me this at 27, I would have disregarded him...said he was daft.

Perhaps in 20 years you may find yourself offering the same advice to a young guy who probably won't want to hear it.

Best of luck in your journey...try not to believe the hype.

As Lennon said, "life is what happens while you are making plans"

 

[jonny jeez]

Maybe some (me) may never accept it. And long for the eternal windfall. Maybe I should try to accept it? But I don't want to... Lol

I get that. I always assumed...for decades...that I would just BE wealthy. I looked back over the salary's I earned and could not understand why I was not actually far more wealthy than I was.

But I bought, used and ultimately threw away (or sold at a vast loss) so much useless crap.

Don't give up on the dream but don't let the dream make your life a nightmare...dont waste your time regretting stuff you haven't even done yet.

 

[Hill Wimp]

I think a lot of young people today ( not all ) are far more conditioned by the media as to what they want/need/desire than other generations. Advertisers are brilliant at subliminally convincing you that you need this or that to be sucessful and that it will make your life happy and fulfilled. The trick is to be able to step away and ask yourself do i really need/want/desire this and how will it really change my life.

It sounds like the media has created a dream that now owns the OP.

 

[Dayvo]

Happiness comes from within, not, err, without:

Lavishing gifts upon yourself and trying to live in luxury: who is that for? You, or others you want to impress?

Have a look at this book: http://www.amazon.com/Broke-Through-Britain-Penniless-Odyssey/dp/184018163X one of the best books I've read.

Health and happiness are probably the most important condition you can have. Money, things and possessions come and go and contribute very little in the long run.

Try doing some voluntary work and see how much you can help somebody who has NOTHING, and see how grateful and appreciative they are. It's a very humbling experience, and I think that is what you need. And SOON!

 

[Salad Dodger]

This is a great thread.

Many thanks to all who have contributed, whatever your particular point of view happens to be.

For my part, I guess I decided quite early on in life that office politics and trying to climb the greasy pole of ambition were not for me. I worked for a high street bank for many years, and it enabled me to provide for my family, with house, car, holiday every year and so on. But not a new spanky top of the range car. Just something reliable, second hand and big enough to tow a caravan. Nor were the holidays in Bahamas, Maldives and so on. They were caravan holidays in Britain, or very occasionally France.

Of course, at times I would park our dullmobile next to some high performance car, look at the Porsche or whatever it was and think "wouldn't it be nice..." but in my heart of hearts I knew that I would never have the drive or ability to hold down the sort of job that would enable me to have that kind of car. And I would probably have broken my health in the process of trying and failing to do the job.

Likewise with holidays. Friends would go off to somewhere exotic, and come back and regale us with tales of their adventures. Then they would say something like "mind you, we needed the holiday. We work so hard all year". And I would think "maybe work less hard, and you wont feel so knackered that you have to recharge your batteries on a foreign holiday, but would instead accept something closer to home".

Likewise with many other things in life. My clothes are from Asda/Primark/Decathlon. Not fashion items.I wear them until they wear out, and dont change them just because they are so last year. My wristwatch is about 20 years old, and unless it breaks I dont plan to buy another. And if I do, it will be something like a Sekonda from Argos, not a Rolex from Mappin & Webb. As long as it does the job, and doesnt look too grotesque, then I will be content. But I shan't worry that it's not the £5000 one that (insert a celebrity of you choice) has just been pictured wearing.

Learn to be happy with what you have. Otherwise, you will be in a world of madness where whatever you own is never as good/big/impressive as it would be, if you could only afford the next "big thing". Which will still not be as good as the rich and famous have. And so the madness goes.....

 

[jonny jeez]

as I said upstream, regardless of income, that never changes.you will always be surprised at how little you have to show for it.

Nothing wrong with wanting to better yourself and don't get me wrong, I'm not some cycling hippy, living out of a shopping trolley. I still have a nice house, a good salary and some very nice "stuff" but I don't waste time and money chasing the flash car or shiny trinkets, they never brought the reward I expected and ultimately led to more disappointment.owning a porsche or a Range Rover was "cool" for a bit but I soon felt like I was just showing off to people who didn't really give a monkeys about me anyway, whilst my real mates didn't give a monkeys about what car I drove.

I have a really good mate who used to earn a very good salary and was always a bit of a knob...I didn't take to him at first, every time we got together I didn't like who I became and we competed on everything.

He lost his job and after a year of burning up his redundancy came to the realisation that he would likely never earn the same salary again.

As it happens he now earns very well but has grown from the experience of nearly losing his house and become a much more likeable guy now that he has dropped the material,desire and flashiness . His generosity of spirit has shone though and he has become a close friend. He was actually the inspiration for me to want to do the same kind of thing.

 

[Drago]

I dont quite understand how or why people measure success by the badge on the grille of their car, or the size of their Barratt identikit lego house. In what what is any of that a 'success'?

 

[Dayvo]

I dont quite understand how or why people measure success by the badge on the grille of their car, or the size of their Barratt identikit lego house. In what what is any of that a 'success'?

And in most cases, large bank loans are the means to an end.

 

[Drago]

One of my brothers in law is a dilbert. A while back he was lording over me because he had a year old bimmer and a 5 bedroom Barratt home (other makes are available).

I took great delight in pointing out that my car actually belongs to me in full, and that I actually own 2 houses, neither of which are on some aspirational New Labour housing estate overlooking a large branch of Morrison's.

 

[screenman]

Whilst having a coffee at one of my garage customers this week I have a good chance of seeing somebody trying to get out of a car that they have negative equity on. Many of these people will be needing to change their car for no apparent reason to me.