Not so cheerful thread

[Globalti]

This friend knew the family better than just seeing them down the road! I could tell you how but I'd have to kill you, etc etc.

 

[Crackle]

Maybe but really how do we know, especially as you can't, for various reasons, add any backbone to this. Without that it's gossipy speculation best not repeated. It could even be your friend doesn't approve of her lifestyle, which is entirely different to there being a problem with her lifestyle.

 

[Globalti]

...as it happens our friend had a similar lifestyle and even lost his well paid responsible job in the community thanks to that lifestyle.

 

[Mr Pig]

Do you have kids Mr Pig? If so, could you imagine your wife suddenly taking your children away

It happens all the time! I have a close relation who has a daughter he virtually never sees. The mother was given custody, actually she just took it and was backed up in court later, and he was given the right to borrow his own daughter once a week. eventually. To begin with he didn't see her at all. In practice he was held in fear of loosing out further if he didn't comply completely to the draconian visitations rights, back by 5pm or else, yet the mother often came up with lame excuses for not letting him have the girl. In the end he more or less gave up and rarely sees his daughter these days. He's not a monster, he's a well-educated decent-living man who's crime was not being a woman.

Maybe this man isn't very nice. Can we really decide though? We always tend to take the side of the injured party we know best but there are two sides to every story.

And to go back to the my original point, why shouldn't he have them? The idiotic notion that the mother is always the best person to bring up the kids pisses me off as I see little evidence for it.

My dad died when I was 11, my sister was 16 and my younger brother 5 so my sister was just going to university, I was going to high school and my brother was starting out. There was nothing wrong with either of my parents but it was dad who was the disciplinarian, kept us in line, made us work and I believe that influence, or lack of it, shows in the three of us. My sister is a director at Intel, I work in a factory and am married with three kids and my bother can hardly look after himself!

I've seen it in lots of other situations too. If a woman is bringing up kids on her own they seem more likely to go off the rails. In fact my mother has often said that people did not think she would be able to raise two boys successfully on her own.

Women obviously bring other qualities to bear in the equation, ideally I think you want both sexes to be there, but my real point is that there is no way the current situation where women almost always get custody of the kids is right. It shows the typically woolly thinking, I refuse to call it reasoning, we so often suffer under in the country. Many other cultures think very differently and I grow tired of the bleating assumption that they are all wrong when our country is the f***** up mess that it is.

 

[theclaud]

There was an order banning either parent from taking the kids out of the country.

The boys were born and raised in the UK. It's all they knew.

The mother had custody and the father had open access. He had as much custody as she did.

He took the children from their mother with no warning to them or her.

You and Rigid Raider have completely the wrong end of the stick. Believe me.

The children were under no kind of threat or danger whatsoever.

I'm glad you came back just then. That was a lot politer than the response I was about to make .

 

[Globalti]

*throws wrong-ended stick away in fit of petulance*

 

[magnatom]

It happens all the time! I have a close relation who has a daughter he virtually never sees. The mother was given custody, actually she just took it and was backed up in court later, and he was given the right to borrow his own daughter once a week. eventually. To begin with he didn't see her at all. In practice he was held in fear of loosing out further if he didn't comply completely to the draconian visitations rights, back by 5pm or else, yet the mother often came up with lame excuses for not letting him have the girl. In the end he more or less gave up and rarely sees his daughter these days. He's not a monster, he's a well-educated decent-living man who's crime was not being a woman.

Maybe this man isn't very nice. Can we really decide though? We always tend to take the side of the injured party we know best but there are two sides to every story.

And to go back to the my original point, why shouldn't he have them? The idiotic notion that the mother is always the best person to bring up the kids pisses me off as I see little evidence for it.

My dad died when I was 11, my sister was 16 and my younger brother 5 so my sister was just going to university, I was going to high school and my brother was starting out. There was nothing wrong with either of my parents but it was dad who was the disciplinarian, kept us in line, made us work and I believe that influence, or lack of it, shows in the three of us. My sister is a director at Intel, I work in a factory and am married with three kids and my bother can hardly look after himself!

I've seen it in lots of other situations too. If a woman is bringing up kids on her own they seem more likely to go off the rails. In fact my mother has often said that people did not think she would be able to raise two boys successfully on her own.

Women obviously bring other qualities to bear in the equation, ideally I think you want both sexes to be there, but my real point is that there is no way the current situation where women almost always get custody of the kids is right. It shows the typically woolly thinking, I refuse to call it reasoning, we so often suffer under in the country. Many other cultures think very differently and I grow tired of the bleating assumption that they are all wrong when our country is the f***** up mess that it is.

*magnatom throws his hands up in the air, shakes his head and leaves knowing that sometimes it is just best to leave it be....*

 

[Crackle]

Did you have a father Maggers. What about others. We need a poll. Me I was brought up by my older sister. Done the uni stuff and all that jazz. I'm a bit crap at DIY mind but that's more my lazy nature than any ability lacking: Start a poll Pig. Let's get to the rump of this assertion.

 

[Gromit]

My parents are not very good, spent most of their time drunk and smoking fags, constantly ending in violent fights, sometime going on for days.

They needed something to argue about, so it was always about me, my younger sister was the angel and could do no wrong. They enjoyed getting her to beat me or belittle what I did in every way. I am the stupid one and agreed with it whole heartedly. Even my Aunties got in with the act.

Ended up leaving home at 19 not wanting anything to do with ever of them.

It's taken a lot of years to try and repair the damage caused by them, I'm slowly getting there.

My sisters kids get called stupid and other things by my Mum, my sister stands by her no matter what, even though she not very nice. I'm the one who's evil and not to be trusted.

Some people should not be a lowed to have children. I'm not going to grace the world with any children, I fear that I will hit them and make them mentally sick.

 

[magnatom]

Did you have a father Maggers. What about others. We need a poll. Me I was brought up by my older sister. Done the uni stuff and all that jazz. I'm a bit crap at DIY mind but that's more my lazy nature than any ability lacking: Start a poll Pig. Let's get to the rump of this assertion.

As it happens my father died of a heart attack when I was 6. I've been brought up by my mother and to some extent my older sister. I turned out ok, I think.

 

[Mr Pig]

He took the children from their mother with no warning to them or her.

To elaborate on my relative's situation that I mentioned earlier.

About a week after his daughter was born the mother took her to Australia to live with an old boyfriend! The father did not find out about his until after she was gone, they were married at the time! The mother insisted the old boyfriend was now just a friend and that she would be coming back to Scotland and sure enough, she did. She returned after about a year and has been here ever since.

Were the police alerted when the she took the girl to Australia? Public outcry? No. After all she was the child's mother, she could do what she liked with her own child. No one cares what the father might be going through at this time, his first and only child taken to the other side of the world without his knowledge, not knowing if she'd ever return. The guy was a mess for years.

I don't think what this guy has done is right, but I understand why he did it. I would suggest that if you thought through the situation and put yourself in his position you might too.

 

[Crackle]

As it happens my father died of a heart attack when I was 6. I've been brought up by my mother and to some extent my older sister. I turned out ok, I think.

..and we'll need a poll on that too, while we're at it.

 

[Mr Pig]

..and we'll need a poll on that too, while we're at it.

Don't know that we do. ;0)

 

[PaulB]

Interesting to see people making up their own versions of the story to feed their own agenda.

Isn't your agenda that because you know the mother, you automatically side with her? Maybe you are too close and you can't see the wood for the trees.

 

[Mr Pig]

Why do people assume that these issues are about the parents and which one should own the children?

Isn't that kind of how it always ends up? I know it's rotten but if parents choose to split up what can you do.

I know the situation I recounted isn't the same, it's just to illustrate the difference between the way men and women are seen. Imagine instead of the mother sodding off to Australia the father had gone to the mother's house, taken the child and he'd disappeared to Australia?

Would opinion be different? I think so, don't you?

If the Syrian woman in this situation had moved somewhere else and taken the kids with her this would not be news.