Older Bikes - Originality, does it matter ?

[pubrunner]

I recently acquired an old (50s I guess) Viking Mileater frame with 531 butted tubing.

Should I seek to build it up with original fittings or should I fit modern dual-pivot brakes, 700c wheels, modern cranks etc etc ?

Is 'originality' important ?

To give an example, I sold my 1958 Rory O'Brien to a guy in the Veteran Cycle Club. He told me that it was very rare to come across a bike in such original condition. He pleaded poverty and stated that he 'really wanted the bike'. He chiselled me down in price and in a fit of generosity, I sold it to him for a massive £80 (Original asking price was only about £100). He told me that he intended to use it for 'club runs' and stated that his friends would be envious of his new steed in such original condition.

The following week, I was irritated to see the frame and parts for sale on Ebay. Obviously, he was quite entitled to do so, but I was annoyed that despite him exalting the virtues of 'originality', the profit motive was higher in his list of priorities. The 'original' fittings were worth more broken up and he ended up selling frame and bits for £170.

So he pulled an entirely original bike apart for the sake of £90 - he is a high-profile member of a cycling club where 'originality' is very important.

I notice that he has sold nearly £1,500 worth of parts/frames/bikes on Ebay in just the last month - all tax free I'd imagine. He is a prolific dealer on Ebay and sells dozens of old parts each month. Of course, he will extoll the virtues of originality - especially if he can sell the parts .

The 'need' for 'originality' appears to be the main force in keeping the market for old parts so buoyant. These old parts can be very expensive to buy; some members of various vintage cycle clubs seem to be making a tidy sum doing just that.

I wonder if the new owner of the Rory O'Brien frame will seek to fit the parts 'required' to keep it 'original' - possibly leading to another old bike being pulled apart to provide the fittings.

 

[PpPete]

I am one who dis-assembles older bikes and sells on the components.

My motivation is not profit though. ( It would be nice to make a profit, but it isn't ever going to happen )

I personally like 531 frames, and I've found that they can be the basis of a really cracking bike when fitted with modern componentry.

I'm not saying they are not nice bikes with the original components, just that, for me, it is possible to do better.

So, some of the components come off and the better ones go into into my "parts bin", the things for which I cannot conceive of any future use go on Ebay....to fund the purchase of newer, better quality components.

My "parts bin" has been growing lately, and I have sold off a few items to forum members, in response to posts in the "wanted" section.

Do I feel guilty about destroying an "original" .... well yes slightly, but in many cases it's been more a case of turning a neglected, mis-treated, bodged, rusty heap of sh*t, into a bike that I, or a family member, can ride and appreciate.

Do I think pubrunner should build his Viking back up as original as possible?
I can't honestly say.. each to his own... but if I did express an opinion I woudl have to "declare an interest" because I've just sold him a chainset

 

[pubrunner]

Hi Pete,

I'd like some advice if possible; the rear dropouts on the Viking are only 115mm apart, by how much can they safely be widened by cold-setting ?

FWIW, I share your views - I think that 531 frames/bikes are great when fitted with modern components.

 

[pubrunner]

I am one who dis-assembles older bikes and sells on the components.

Yes, but you don't 'see the need' for originality; the guy that bought and sold my Rory O'Brien specifically stated to me that "old bikes should be kept original". I told him that I had considered fitting some modern components and he told me that would 'spoil' the bike.

 

[pubrunner]

My "parts bin" has been growing lately, and I have sold off a few items to forum members, in response to posts in the "wanted" section.

Let me know if you have any 700c wheels available.

 

[Norm]

Do I think pubrunner should build his Viking back up as original as possible?

Slightly off-topic, I have an old Viking which I bought new just before my O levels in 1978, which I've just got back on the road again.

I went through it in '94, fitted new chain rings and back wheel, this time round, it's just needed a new BB and tyres. I should put some bar tape on it as well, but I rather like the bare metal on the drops.

I also like the "dual-lever brakes" as they were called back then, and I don't agree with the current fashion for calling them "suicide levers".

It's pretty much as it was back in the day, though, although I've also added 30 years worth of rust to the frame. I can't decide whether to tart up the visuals or leave it with the patina of age which it has earned in my tender mis-care.

Back on topic, whether to keep original or not depends on what you want to use it for. If it's to place on the mantel-piece and admire, then keep it original. If you want to use it, then there's no point in making life hard for yourself so get modern stuff. IMO.

 

[PpPete]

Yes, but you don't 'see the need' for originality; the guy that bought and sold my Rory O'Brien specifically stated to me that "old bikes should be kept original". I told him that I had considered fitting some modern components and he told me that would 'spoil' the bike.

Yes - his actions were dishonest and utterly reprehensible in my opinion.

Can you "name & shame"? Not his real name of course, just his ebay name. I would like to block him from bidding on any of my items.

 

[dan_bo]

I also run a old viking ('63 ss-T, lovely)

It should have clements tubs, a chater-lea crankset, GB handlebars, period rim tape etc etc etc......

However, It runs just fine with velocity deep V rims, a cinelli stem, tiny saddle and '09 Dura-Ace track cranks.

Do what you see fit. It's your bike.

 

[PpPete]

Let me know if you have any 700c wheels available.

No old 700c available at the moment.... but I do have a pair of alloy 27" x 1-1/4" - sort of a Westrick pattern rim.

If you are interested I can take some pics.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I built up an old 1978 531c frame with modern components and it's a lovely ride, well worth doing.

Your club member who sold the bike on sounds like a piece of work - I'd ask him why he did that.

 

[dan_bo]

My apologies I didn't read the OP. Obviously.

the guy's a blag artist. I'd (quietly) let him know I was on to him.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I have a feeling it weas someone my girlfriend's dad knows who bought your Rory O'Brien. I don't think he'd have broken it for bits though as he has a fantastic collection of old bikes, mostly complete and original.
Personally, while I didn't hesitate to kit out my old Dawes Galaxy with modern components, I wouldn't want to actually break an original old bike for the bits. The same dilemma exists with old electric guitars: one of mine is worth far more in bits than complete, but I wouldn't sell it like that.

 

[pubrunner]

Your club member who sold the bike on sounds like a piece of work - I'd ask him why he did that.

He said that "it wasn't quite what he expected".

He is a long-time and highly regarded member of the V-CC, whilst I've only joined in the last 18 months. He is such a fanatic about 'originality' that he even wears period clothing for club rides; I don't so much mind that he made a profit on the bike, it is the hypocrisy that narks me.

He is very much involved and influential in the activities of his local section (sadly, the nearest one to me) and is considered to be something of a 'guru' on old bikes. I know very little about old bikes/bike components and automatically, that gives me no 'standing' within the V-CC.

I have mentioned it to some V-CC members, but basically, they weren't interested. As I've already mentioned, (unlike PorkyPete), some of them do make very good money from Ebay.

 

[Hilldodger]

That's why I don't want to be a member of the VCC any more because too many people use it to further their business. If it wasn't for the Boneshaker magazine I wouldn't bother.

 

[pubrunner]

I have a feeling it weas someone my girlfriend's dad knows who bought your Rory O'Brien. I don't think he'd have broken it for bits though as he has a fantastic collection of old bikes, mostly complete and original.

I can assure you that it was someone that your girlfriend's Dad knows and the bike was 'broken for bits'. Your girlfriend's Dad is fully aware of what happened.

I have emailed your girlfriend's dad quite a few times and have found him to be incredibly helpful, friendly and knowledgeable. He has 'gone out of his way' to provide advice and assistance - he is a person for whom I have the utmost respect - a thoroughly decent man. He was, I think, embarrassed and 'put-out' at what occurred; he felt that he was 'put in a difficult position', because the buyer of my bike is a 'long-standing friend'.

The matter is long since closed. I've mentally 'forgiven' the buyer of the bike - his attitude towards dealing in old bikes and originality is just different from my own. No point in harbouring grudges; life goes on and all that.

I've only used that real-life experience to query whether 'originality' is so important.