On-the-spot fines for careless driving!!

[rnscotch]

Just back from the gym where on the radio there where talking about new
plans to give police the power to issue penalty points for careless driving without evidence being heard in court.


"Police will be much less likely to give verbal warnings and will instead issue fixed-penalty notices for minor offences such as failing to signal, passing too close to a cyclist or not displaying lights at night. Drivers will pay an automatic £60 fine and have three penalty points added to their licences.
More than a million motorists have six or more points on their licences. Anyone who receives 12 points within three years is banned for six months. In 2006, 26,400 drivers were banned for “totting up” 12 points."

They commented on a Department for Transport consultation paper which said that there is evidence that police are not charging drivers with careless driving because of the heavy burden of paperwork.

This was the first i have heard of this what's people thoughts on this personally i don't think it will make much difference look at the way people flout the mobile phone ban.



They commented on a Department for Transport consultation paper which said that there is evidence that police are not charging drivers with careless driving because of the heavy burden of paperwork.

 

[thomas]

I heard about it but in regard to cyclists, I don't think most motorists are stupid enough to try and squeeze past with the police around. However, if everyone who squeezes past me could get a £60 fine and 3 points I would cut up all my footage and hand it in at the local police station along with the list of number plates.

 

[ColinJ]

I heard about it but in regard to cyclists, I don't think most motorists are stupid enough to try and squeeze past with the police around.

If they are stupid enough to kill themselves through crazy driving (which large numbers of drivers are) they are stupid enough for anything!

Just watch some of those cops 'n drivers video shows. Sometimes the police are driving in marked vehicles right behind somebody and they still go ahead and commit a serious driving offence.

Never underestimate the stupidity of some people!

 

[rnscotch]

That's sort of my point thomas, Unlike existing fixed-penalty offences, such as speeding and using a mobile phone at the wheel, the evidence for careless driving is much less clear-cut and is often a matter of the officer’s opinion.

TBH unless these fines are being issued to raise revenue (which is another matter) I don't really see it making any difference as to how things are at the moment. Like yourself i would love to see everyone that does stupid manoeuvres near me get fined and points added to there license but i am sceptical on these new powers.

 

[Amanda P]

i don't think it will make much difference look at the way people flout the mobile phone ban.

The problem is that, for most driving offences, the chances of being caught are very remote (unless you're stupid enough to speed or use a phone when police are watching).

There are two ways around that: make the chances of being caught much higher, by putting more police on the streets, or else make the penalty, when you are caught sufficiently severe that people will think twice before committing the offence in the first place.

I would argue for short instant bans.

So, if caught speeding a first time, maybe a ban of a week. But if you were caught driving during that ban, you'd be banned for, say, five years - to deter anyone from flouting the ban. And police would be checking on occasionally during your ban to make sure you're not driving.

A week without the car would make people realise how much they rely on it.

If caught speeding, driving carelessly or whatever a second time, a ban of perhaps a month. And so on.

Someone stupid or careless enough to be caught committing offences four times within three years would be banned for a long period, and would have to re-take their test.

Vehicles are dangerous weapons, but we treat them almost with contempt - even when they are deliberately used as weapons. Why not deal with offenders as we would those who use knives or guns as weapons? If someone injured or killed another person with a gun, would we ever let them own one again? We do if they do it with a car.

 

[Eat MY Dust]

TBH unless these fines are being issued to raise revenue (which is another matter)

I wouldn't have a problem with this. A stupidity tax would be a good thing.

 

[gavintc]

I wouldn't have a problem with this. A stupidity tax would be a good thing.

We already have that - National Lottery.

 

[beanzontoast]

Being passed too closely is something that I really don't like. Has anyone who's been cycling on roads for a while not been brushed by an overtaking vehicle?

Half the problem is the drivers who don't realise what they are doing rather than those who know they should give cyclists room but don't bother to. Whichever, if these proposals help get the message across, that's surely a good thing.

 

[wesa]

I think this would be good if there were enough Police on the roads to make it work. Having said that, I would prefer to see a high profile publicity campaign first to tell drivers to refresh their knowledge before it is implemented.

There are times when I don't mind a close pass, but what really p****s me of is when there is a clear road and a following driver just can't be bothered to rotate that steering wheel more than 1° clockwise. I don't think this is malicious, I think it is pure ignorance and I think (hope!) that a bit of education would go a long way.
(climbs down from soapbox!)

I think I am fortunate in my commute, the only motorist related incidents I have had are close passes (plenty of them), I don't seem to suffer from left hooks, pullouts etc. I must be fair and say that the vast majority of drivers pass with plenty of room.

 

[magnatom]

To make a real impact on close passes, you would need cyclists out there who had video (a couple of cameras) and ultrasound equipment (range finding) attached to their bikes. If properly calibrated this would provide ample evidence of bad driving. The footage and data could be analysed later (the cyclist could mark the data when a close pass happened) and fines posted out in a similar way to speed camera fines. All very technically feasible, and wouldn't necessarily weigh a huge amount with current technology. The costs would probably be less than a speed camera. This equipment could routinely be placed on police cyclists bikes, and occasionally on 'unmarked' bikes.

Of course it all depends on priorities, and cyclist safety is not a police priority.

 

[swee'pea99]

Pure PR, I fear.

The problem with empowering plod in this way is that its effectiveness is entirely proportional to the extent to which plod chooses to use the power. Witness, as others have mentioned, the underwhelming impact of 'no mobile while you're driving' legislation.

This will give plod the power to punish motorists for driving too close to cyclists. Will they use it? Only if they give a crap about people driving too close to cyclists. Or, to put it another way, no.

 

[ColinJ]

There are times when I don't mind a close pass, but what really p****s me of is when there is a clear road and a following driver just can't be bothered to rotate that steering wheel more than 1° clockwise. I don't think this is malicious, I think it is pure ignorance and I think (hope!) that a bit of education would go a long way.

I've noticed that a lot of cars overtake me too close then pull out after they have passsed me!

I think the drivers are half asleep, distracted by mobile phones, passengers talking (whatever) and realise at the last moment that there is a cyclist ahead of them. By the time they react it is too late. Watch out for it and you'll see what I mean!

 

[Bollo]

Have to agree. In the past week I've seen plenty on mobiles, including two HGV drivers (and one of these clearly drifting in and out of his lane) but I've struggled to find any statistics on warnings and prosecutions by plod. If something so blatant and open to proof as mobile use is rarely prosecuted, then its unlikely that anything as debatable as a close pass (and think how much we debate it) will catch plod's attention.

 

[magnatom]

Have to agree. In the past week I've seen plenty on mobiles, including two HGV drivers (and one of these clearly drifting in and out of his lane) but I've struggled to find any statistics on warnings and prosecutions by plod. If something so blatant and open to proof as mobile use is rarely prosecuted, then its unlikely that anything as debatable as a close pass (and think how much we debate it) will catch plod's attention.

That's part of the reason I do what I do. Drivers often just don't realise how a close pass can affect a cyclist, so some of my videos show this. Of course seeing my videos won't change the attitude of very many drivers, but I know for a fact that it has changed the attitude (for the better) on a few occasions, so that in itself is a victory.

Still, it won't change the world....

 

[hackbike 666]

Yeah,how would the police enforce this as they seem to ignore everything else out on the road.Mobile phones being a prime example.