Pavement cyclists.

[mangaman]

Dead right. Most people think I should ride everywhere on the pavement until they see me bowling througfh town an 25 mph. "F* me, I'm not surprised you don't use the pavement at *that* speed, I wouldn't want to be coming out of a pub if you were going past like that". Exactly. Now cut me some slack, I could be doing anywhere between 10 and 30 mph, but when I have right of way I *will* be in the road.

The difference is that most cyclists don't feel quite as comfortable as I do when they are having to kick a white van to inform him of a violation of right of way.

Sorry - I don't understand a word you're saying.

 

[raindog]

There are some very strange posts in this thread.

 

[Mark_Robson]

Cycling has been shown to be very safe, and taking into account the health benefits, much better for you than not cycling.

I don't think that anyone would dispute that statement but we have to accept that cycling on the road is a nerve racking experience for the inexperienced cyclist.

I consider myself to be an intermediate commuter, I'm confident and assertive, confident changing lanes, turning right and negotiating roundabouts. I'm as interested in improving my road skills as I am my stamina, that said I still have empathy with the people who don't subscribe to this forum or take cycling as seriously as I do. To them roads are something to be afraid of, turning right is terrifying and they dismount to avoid tackling roundabouts.

Maybe an issue is that anyone can buy a bike and use it without any understanding of how to ride it safely, BTW I am not advocating mandatory cycle training here I am purely suggesting reasons why people cycle on pavements.

There is also the question of confidence, roads are a daunting place for the inexperienced cyclist, cycle lanes are intermittent and full of debris, and there are a minority of motorists who have no respect for cyclists.

IMO, until cycling can be made less daunting for the inexperienced you are always going to have people riding on pavements. The only real solution is to improve the cycling infrastructure of this country to the point where people feel confident using it.

 

[ufkacbln]

Here in Lee on Solent there is a problem with people cycling on a particular stretch of footpath.

Problem is that it is the same colour that the local Council uses to identify cycle tracks.

Many of the perpetrators have assumed some consistency and genuinely think it is a cycle facility!

 

[dondare]

Bicycles are wheeled vehicles with dynamics similar to other wheeled vehicles and much different to those of pedestrians. The carriageway provides a suitable environment for vehicles and the footpath does not.

 

[dondare]

I don't think that anyone would dispute that statement but we have to accept that cycling on the road is a nerve racking experience for the inexperienced cyclist.

I consider myself to be an intermediate commuter, I'm confident and assertive, confident changing lanes, turning right and negotiating roundabouts. I'm as interested in improving my road skills as I am my stamina, that said I still have empathy with the people who don't subscribe to this forum or take cycling as seriously as I do. To them roads are something to be afraid of, turning right is terrifying and they dismount to avoid tackling roundabouts.

Maybe an issue is that anyone can buy a bike and use it without any understanding of how to ride it safely, BTW I am not advocating mandatory cycle training here I am purely suggesting reasons why people cycle on pavements.

There is also the question of confidence, roads are a daunting place for the inexperienced cyclist, cycle lanes are intermittent and full of debris, and there are a minority of motorists who have no respect for cyclists.

IMO, until cycling can be made less daunting for the inexperienced you are always going to have people riding on pavements. The only real solution is to improve the cycling infrastructure of this country to the point where people feel confident using it.

These are not reasons for allowing cyclists to break the law and ride on the pavement. These are reasons for not allowing motorists to break the law so that the roads are safer. Any campaigning for bikes on pavements is misdirected and misguided.

 

[Rob3rt]

I think a lot of people in this thread seem to have completelly missed one important point in the OP's post in their haste to debate pavement surfing.

If you shout at people or address them rudely i.e. "get of the pavement" then you just invite people to tell you to f*ck off, I'd have probly told you (the OP) to f*ck off if he/she(you) had addressed me with an authorative/aggresive tone tbh, if you had maybe started with something more social ("morning, do you know that you are not supposed to cycle on the pavements? This pavement in particular is very narrow and it is quite an obstruction") you may or may not (probly not - but you would at least have had a better moral standpoint to moan about their response, since your issue seems to be more focused on being told to f*ck off rather than them pavement surfing) have got a better response.

Believe it or not, people often respond to rudeness and aggression with rudeness and aggression.


I dont condone pavement surfing unless it is required to access cyclepaths or other access point, which on my commute, it is at 2 points, you have no choice but to use a pavement and ped crossing to get onto the cycle path approaching my work place, and then must surf another pavement for about 3 metres to get around a security barrier, wrong as it may be im not dismounting for 3 metres.

 

[Armegatron]

I was riding along a segregated cycle / ped path before, and had a family of joggers approach me. I was on my half and they were bunched up and not moving to their half. I got closer and politely said excuse me, and after I had slowed to a crawl the father last minute moved over saying, "you belong on the road". Sometimes we just cant win

 

[dondare]

I think a lot of people in this thread seem to have completelly missed one important point in the OP's post in their haste to debate pavement surfing.

If you shout at people or address them rudely i.e. "get of the pavement" then you just invite people to tell you to f*ck off, I'd have probly told you (the OP) to f*ck off if he/she(you) had addressed me with an authorative/aggresive tone tbh, if you had maybe started with something more social ("morning, do you know that you are not supposed to cycle on the pavements? This pavement in particular is very narrow and it is quite an obstruction") you may or may not (probly not - but you would at least have had a better moral standpoint to moan about their response, since your issue seems to be more focused on being told to f*ck off rather than them pavement surfing) have got a better response.

Believe it or not, people often respond to rudeness and aggression with rudeness and aggression.


I dont condone pavement surfing unless it is required to access cyclepaths or other access point, which on my commute, it is at 2 points, you have no choice but to use a pavement and ped crossing to get onto the cycle path approaching my work place, and then must surf another pavement for about 3 metres to get around a security barrier, wrong as it may be im not dismounting for 3 metres.

Would you dismount if you were asked politely?

 

[Rob3rt]

Would you dismount if you were asked politely?

Yes. I would dismount without being prompted if I was an inconvenience to pedestrians also. If I was no inconvenience to them and they asked me to dismount, I may offer them an explination as to why for this very small section I am on the pavement (probly about 10 metres total) if they tried to inform me im not meant to be on the pavement, depending on the situation I would probly dismount to humour them, walk 3 metres and mount up again, which would simply make them realise how pointless a request it was.

The 3 metre section to pass a security gate is a quiet pavement. The pedestrian crossing, I simply cross according to the lights taking care not to be an inconvenience to the pedestrians. If its busy I'll dismount.

 

[Ste T.]

I really enjoy reading commuting posts and videos about how all these drivers are peanuts and can't follow the rules of the road... and the rants about them not understanding the door zone or primary riding position.. and the way they often cut us up for no real advantage. This is all because they don't follow the rules.
And there's the rub.
Once we don't follow the rules ourselves, or read them the way we want to, we lose the right to be indignent about our lives being put at risk by others. In anticipation of you saying you do it carefully and don't speed, you may not, but many do. Theyr'e in 1 ton steel boxes and can do far more harm? Last year,near where I live, an old lady was knocked down by a cyclist riding on the pavement and broke her hip and a few years before that a middle aged bloke ,waiting to cross on a pelican was knocked down on the pavement, the cyclist got back on and shot off. The bloke banged his head but didn't go to hospital. The next day he was rushed to hospital where he died of a brain heamorrage. The cyclist was never traced. It doesn't happen often,and for the most part we may not do as much damage as cars, but it does happen. The driving community don't have a monopoly on peanuts.
I'm off for a 30 miler now, to do some shouting at the peanuts in the cars, so I can't respond sorry,
Take care out there everyone

 

[Norm]

Dead right. Most people think I should ride everywhere on the pavement until they see me bowling througfh town an 25 mph. "F* me, I'm not surprised you don't use the pavement at *that* speed, I wouldn't want to be coming out of a pub if you were going past like that". Exactly. Now cut me some slack, I could be doing anywhere between 10 and 30 mph, but when I have right of way I *will* be in the road.

Kind of +1 to that, with reservations because I think much of the danger isn't about speed but about speed differentials.

When I ride on the road, I generally do between 15-20mph. For the majority of the roads that I use, that puts me at a speed around 35% of the speed limit, and around 50% of the speed that most cars travel at.

Doing that speed on the pavement, though, would mean that I'm doing at least 5 times the speed of pedestrians.

Taking into account that I ride in the left hand carriageway, in the same direction as the cars on that carriageway, and the speed differential is not that great, in percentage terms and drivers have a good chance to see me and avoid me.

On pavements or shared use facilities, where there is no control over the direction of flow, with entry and exit points like pubs, driveways etc you'd need to ride at 6-8mph to have a similar differential. That's a bit slow, even for me.

Give me the keys to a white van and a cavalier disregard for other people's safety and I'll make your wish come true.

Within a year I guarantee 80% of Leeds cyclists will be off the road or dead. Simples.

Are you suggesting 80% of people who cycle in Leeds will be dead or off the road within 1 year?

No, he's saying, pretty explicitly IMO, that if you gave him a white van and a cavalier disregard for other people's safety, then he'd take out 80% of the cyclists in Leeds.

 

[brokenbetty]

Believe it or not, people often respond to rudeness and aggression with rudeness and aggression.

True. Pavement cycling is rude and aggressive, that's why pedestrians often react aggressively.

In other words, the cyclist started it.

Round here, the pavement cyclists are late teenagers and grown men. Yes, they ride on the pavement because they are scared of the road, but that's not how they see it. They just prefer to be top dog on the pavement.

 

[Rob3rt]

True. Pavement cycling is rude and aggressive, that's why pedestrians often react aggressively.

In other words, the cyclist started it.

Round here, the pavement cyclists are late teenagers and grown men. Yes, they ride on the pavement because they are scared of the road, but that's not how they see it. They just prefer to be top dog on the pavement.

IMO this is not accurate, it is possible to navigate a pavement when neccessary, doing so carefully, taking care not to endanger or inconvenience pedestrians.

Some people may swerve about and ride stupidly on the pavement, others simply are trying to access places with no alternative route and dont dismount for a short distance or are building confidence. Then some high and mighty ped starts wailing at them, they are bound to reply in an 'un-sanitary' way when if simply approached they may offer a simple explination or even dismount.

Its just the equivalent of a ped in the cycle lane, if you yell f*cking move they will give you abuse back and possibly obstruct you further, if you just say, excuse me, do you realise this is a cycle lane, you might find they often just move to one side or aknowledge you.

Pavement cycling may not be acceptable but no need to treat people like scum for doing so. Especially when you have no idea why they are there. Let them know they arent meant to be there and then let them decide how to procede, judge their following actions, if they continue, judge them all you want, how about if they just didnt realise they are doing wrong then someone starts shouting and commanding them around and they dont understand why they are being yelled at, dont just yell at people.

 

[brokenbetty]

I'll line the drinks up for later Betty.