Pavement or not pavement

[ComedyPilot]

A path IMO is not a safe place for a cyclist. It's thin, has a 6" drop off kerb into the gutter, has lots of gates/drives with hedges (reducing visibility), peds walking all over with no indication of their intentions. A road is smooth(ish), clear of peds, and has increased visibility from gates/drives. Down side are cars/vehicles.

Fair do's for a little one learning to ride, but once competent, the road or designated cycle path is a much safer place to ride.

I would be interested to see comparative 'accident' data between the uk and Holland regarding cycle casualties/causes of accidents.

Holland/Germany have it so right, and the uk is light years behind.

 

[addictfreak]

A path IMO is not a safe place for a cyclist. It's thin, has a 6" drop off kerb into the gutter, has lots of gates/drives with hedges (reducing visibility), peds walking all over with no indication of their intentions. A road is smooth(ish), clear of peds, and has increased visibility from gates/drives. Down side are cars/vehicles.

Fair do's for a little one learning to ride, but once competent, the road or designated cycle path is a much safer place to ride.

I would be interested to see comparative 'accident' data between the uk and Holland regarding cycle casualties/causes of accidents.

Holland/Germany have it so right, and the uk is light years behind.

I would agree with you on some of those points. My intention is not to suggest that cycling on the pavement should be the norm, merely that it has its place in some circumstances rather than the zero tolerance approach.
Clearly as with any activity there is an element of risk assesment (something I believe we all do whether we realise it or not). Given the circumstances you give above then clearly that is not a place to cycle. But even with some cycle paths you have the same hazards, peds, joggers kerbs etc.
There are too many variables in my opinion to give a definative solution. I havent even mentioned people with disabilities yet, would we deny them the enjoyment and freedom of cycling.

Your point about comparisons between the UK and the continent is interesting. The whole attitude to cycling over there is different and has been for many years. As with most things we seems to be light years behind and unwilling to accept change.
I was in France last year and couldnt believe how quiet the roads were compared to here.

 

[ComedyPilot]

I would agree with you on some of those points. My intention is not to suggest that cycling on the pavement should be the norm, merely that it has its place in some circumstances rather than the zero tolerance approach.
Clearly as with any activity there is an element of risk assesment (something I believe we all do whether we realise it or not). Given the circumstances you give above then clearly that is not a place to cycle. But even with some cycle paths you have the same hazards, peds, joggers kerbs etc.
There are too many variables in my opinion to give a definative solution. I havent even mentioned people with disabilities yet, would we deny them the enjoyment and freedom of cycling.

Your point about comparisons between the UK and the continent is interesting. The whole attitude to cycling over there is different and has been for many years. As with most things we seems to be light years behind and unwilling to accept change.
I was in France last year and couldnt believe how quiet the roads were compared to here.

It's the 'idle' motorists that are unwilling to change, totally hooked on the imported american car-orientated mobile lifestyle. "I have to go to the toilet, I think I'll need the 4x4 for the stairs"

Out of town shopping centres with large car parks, for people who can't be arsed to walk along a pedestrianised high street. america started it, and like a stupid lap dog, we have followed suit.

Mobility scooters used by fat idle people who can't be bothered to walk. Genuine people with mobility issues, not a problem, but (idle fat) people do use them as a mode of transport when they could easily walk/cycle (too much like hard work).

We have approaching 3m uneployed, so don't tell me we don't have the resources to do it. Get a government with backbone to raise public works and build cycle paths like Holland and Germany. I know it can't happen everywhere, due to old town infrastructure, but surely cycle paths should be a pre-requisite inclusion on all new road builds or upgrades?

 

[addictfreak]

I agree with your comments, but would nt blame it entirely on drivers its a wider lifestyle thing. I have never understood our fascination with the 'good ole US' personally i'd rather have closer ties to Europe.

 

[byegad]

I'd personally ignore the cyclist here, the problem is anyone driving a vehicle in such a way that they can't avoid coming into contact with other road users or road furniture. Barring mishap, mechanical. medical, impossible to anticipate road conditions, a driver should never hit anything. The driving is the problem.

I'd like to take you up on the impossible to predict road conditions.

I sat and puzzled what one might be. Can you give an example?

Not being picky, well I am a bit, but I was taught to ride motorcycles by the RAC/ACU training scheme, long defunct. They advised treating all road surfaces as potentially hazardous unless you could definitely see they were not. So you anticipate on roundabouts there could be spilt deisel, in winter roads may be iced over, etc. If only drivers were taught the same way now I would not see so many cars off the road on twisty back lanes.

 

[wafflycat]

Please show me in my post where I say all elderly cyclists are decrepit, or that special facilities are are required purely on grounds of age.
I find it somewhat surprising that you think everyone has the same capability as you may have. It seems somewhat intolerent, a sort of im all right jack attitude.
I do however agree with the training aspect for all ages. It does of course have to be quality training. Even with training there are still those times where cycling on pavement would be safer. Saying as the law clearly states you must not cycle on the pavement, it would be interesting to know at what you think children should be on the road for example.

I didn't. What I referred to was your post where you say "I was just curious as to what those people who may be elderly..." so you're the one who are clearly inferring that 'the elderly' require special treatment by virtue of the fact that they are elderly. I've just pointed out that this is somewhat patronising as I know plenty of elderly (70+ years of age) who are exceedingly competent cyclists on roads. I have NOT assumed they have the same capability as I have. I'd even say that somer have more than I have due to their additional years of experience to me.

I've already referred to training...

 

[addictfreak]

Thank you for telling me what I was thinking.

 

[wafflycat]

I was in France last year and couldnt believe how quiet the roads were compared to here.

Francis is much bigger than the UK and has a lower population density than the UK. It explains a lot. However, in any major town or city, you'll find busy roads just as here. What is different is, as has been mentioned, the attitude to cyclists, where it seems to be much more tolerant than over here, as many of us have experienced and delighted in.

 

[wafflycat]

Thank you for telling me what I was thinking.

You're most welcome, so seem to do it yourself as regards my thought processes