Leaway2
Lycrist
- Location
- Manchester (Sale)
Greece. Everything looks to be going well there!
Pensions
- Thread starter compo
- Start date
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Greece. Everything looks to be going well there!
Flying Dodo
It'll soon be summer
Although dell gave a glowing example of Germany, it isn't too healthy there.
Of course, here in the UK with auto-enrolment into pension schemes now starting with large employers, and being rolled out to all employers over the next few years, every employee not already in a pension scheme and their employer, will have to contribute into a pension. The minimum rates won't realistically be sufficient to provide much of a benefit though.
Someone should really be paying in at least 15% of salary from leaving school, to build up a decent pension. Now it's rare you'll hear me say this, but one of the reasons final salary company pension schemes barely exist any more is the fault of Mrs T. Back in 1988 the Tories removed the requirement for company pension schemes to automatically enrol new employees into pension schemes. The result was a large fall in the numbers of younger people joining final salary schemes (as they realised they could spend their money on being a yuppie), which was a minor factor in so many closing over the years. Increased legislation and more meddling from short term politicians helped as well of course.
What isn't generally considered is just how much National Insurance contributions will have to go up by, in the coming decades, in order to keep paying the State pension, taking account of the drastic increase in the numbers of pensioners, and the increase in longevity of those pensioners compared with the numbers of actual workers paying NI contributions.
Right from my early 20's, I've pumped as much as I could afford into pensions, and not spent money on more short term things, but I guess being in the industry I can see the reasons why. The problem with all Governments is that they only consider a time frame of up to 5 years. As I said on page 1, you can't trust the State to provide for you.
Of course, here in the UK with auto-enrolment into pension schemes now starting with large employers, and being rolled out to all employers over the next few years, every employee not already in a pension scheme and their employer, will have to contribute into a pension. The minimum rates won't realistically be sufficient to provide much of a benefit though.
Someone should really be paying in at least 15% of salary from leaving school, to build up a decent pension. Now it's rare you'll hear me say this, but one of the reasons final salary company pension schemes barely exist any more is the fault of Mrs T. Back in 1988 the Tories removed the requirement for company pension schemes to automatically enrol new employees into pension schemes. The result was a large fall in the numbers of younger people joining final salary schemes (as they realised they could spend their money on being a yuppie), which was a minor factor in so many closing over the years. Increased legislation and more meddling from short term politicians helped as well of course.
What isn't generally considered is just how much National Insurance contributions will have to go up by, in the coming decades, in order to keep paying the State pension, taking account of the drastic increase in the numbers of pensioners, and the increase in longevity of those pensioners compared with the numbers of actual workers paying NI contributions.
Right from my early 20's, I've pumped as much as I could afford into pensions, and not spent money on more short term things, but I guess being in the industry I can see the reasons why. The problem with all Governments is that they only consider a time frame of up to 5 years. As I said on page 1, you can't trust the State to provide for you.
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
Which, of course, is because we've never funded the state scheme - which in turn is at least partly because of government squeamishness about investing in business. If a government were to bite the bullet, accept that there is a large role for the state in directing the economy, and go for a properly funded state pension we could wean ourselves off the current unfunded system inside a generation.
There are plenty of infrastructure assets which give a very long-term stable inflation-linked return and which are way beyond the risk appetite of the average private-sector investor. Without the insane constraints of IAS19, market-consistent valuation and (heaven help us if it ever comes in) the IORP directive a decent government-backed salary-related funded scheme would be affordable. And we'd get national assets paid for by the nation instead of leased out on short-termist PPI deals.
Flying Dodo
It'll soon be summer
I agree entirely.
Never going to happen with any politicians of any flavour sadly.
Never going to happen with any politicians of any flavour sadly.
asterix
Comrade Member
- Location
- Limoges or York
Ah, Mrs T.
The PM who allowed companies to take 'pension holidays' when funds were in (short term) surplus.
The PM who scrapped the link between the state pension and earnings set up in the 1970's by Barbara Castle.
The PM who might have set up a UK sovereign wealth fund (like Norway did) using North Sea oil revenue but instead chose to make tax cuts. In other words the money was handed to individuals to spend as they pleased. How strange that they rarely spent it on providing for their old age other than perhaps expecting ever inflating property prices to meet that need.
I do not have much in the way of pension to look forward to, however I blame one person for that, that person is ME!
As for the person paying in 15% that is not enough for the amount of pension some people receive, even more so if you plan on an early retirement, however if it is a civil service pension it will be well enhanced. A friend of mine has just retired from the Police we worked at at his rate of pension his pot will be empty in 8 years, he is 50 and expects to live on for longer than he worked. That said he was promised a pension with the job and that promise should be honoured.
As for the person paying in 15% that is not enough for the amount of pension some people receive, even more so if you plan on an early retirement, however if it is a civil service pension it will be well enhanced. A friend of mine has just retired from the Police we worked at at his rate of pension his pot will be empty in 8 years, he is 50 and expects to live on for longer than he worked. That said he was promised a pension with the job and that promise should be honoured.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
If he remained in the National Police Pension it keeps paying until he karks it, even if he lives to be 100.
Sorry Drago, the point I was making is in the real world you would need a far bigger pot than he had accumulated to get the pension he will. My neighbour ex police has been retired 32 years now, that is longer than he worked lucky bugger and a nicer guy would be hard to meet.
Not knocking the police as I think they do a hard job, just trying to get a small point across that there is a huge difference in the amount of pension paid out if you have the same final pot when retiring comparing civil service with private industry etc.
The system must change.
Not knocking the police as I think they do a hard job, just trying to get a small point across that there is a huge difference in the amount of pension paid out if you have the same final pot when retiring comparing civil service with private industry etc.
The system must change.
Ah yes. The tract written by a middle class man who never had a job and spent his adult life sponging off a wealthy industrialist.
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
[QUOTE 2119593, member: 9609"]And you certainly can't count on a personal pension plan providing for you either - no matter how much money you pump in!
What they told me I was likely to receive when I started over 20 years ago, and what the projections are now are worlds apart, they are now saying I will get about an eighth of what they were saying 22 years ago. Paying into a PPP has been my greatest waste of money![/quote]
Unless investment returns get back to normal, in which case it might have been a good decision.
22 years ago was the end of an enormous bull run. Since then we've been in a bear state. But inflation has also been low, which makes low returns less of a problem.
What they told me I was likely to receive when I started over 20 years ago, and what the projections are now are worlds apart, they are now saying I will get about an eighth of what they were saying 22 years ago. Paying into a PPP has been my greatest waste of money![/quote]
Unless investment returns get back to normal, in which case it might have been a good decision.
22 years ago was the end of an enormous bull run. Since then we've been in a bear state. But inflation has also been low, which makes low returns less of a problem.
Adrian, why should a policeman not be able to do his job at say 65 any better than a roofer or bricklayer can at the same age? in fact they should maybe be in better condition, as my wife points out the police have better support for sickness, injuries and require testing each year. After all how many front line on the beat coppers are there compared with the amount of back room one's.
I have just copied these pieces.
Policy Exchange made the case for reform, however, saying that the annual cost of taxpayer contributions to police pensions has doubled, rising from £951m in 1995/96 to £1.9bn in 2009/10
Policy Exchange believe that members who joined before 2006 receive benefits worth about 35 per cent of their annual salary, paid for by the taxpayer.
The maximum pension is now half of final salary, plus a lump sum of four times final salary. The new minimum retirement age is 55.
My question to the pension experts out there how much would be needed in the pot to pay this out?
But as I said earlier if the promise was made.
I have just copied these pieces.
Policy Exchange made the case for reform, however, saying that the annual cost of taxpayer contributions to police pensions has doubled, rising from £951m in 1995/96 to £1.9bn in 2009/10
Policy Exchange believe that members who joined before 2006 receive benefits worth about 35 per cent of their annual salary, paid for by the taxpayer.
The maximum pension is now half of final salary, plus a lump sum of four times final salary. The new minimum retirement age is 55.
My question to the pension experts out there how much would be needed in the pot to pay this out?
But as I said earlier if the promise was made.
Leaway2
Lycrist
- Location
- Manchester (Sale)
2119705 said:
No climb a ladder carrying heavy weights. Bending, lifting.
As your age increases your ability to do manual work decreases and there must be jobs within the police force that could be done by the older members of the force.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Yes, indeed. I'm sort of halfway there already due to loss of function in one arm following an on duty kicking. Spend about half my time on the cycle training, the other half at headquarters doing something that requires the knowledge and experience, but not the brawn.
I did offer to take medical retirement but the decided that if they're going to pay me anyway they may as well get some work out of me, which is fair play.
Trust me screen man. Apart from the minor disability I'm a 43 year old of well above average fitness. Even so, there's no way in hell ill catch an 18 year old in hoodie and trainers hopped up on Lord knows what, never mind doing so while weighed down with all the kit.
Indeed, wearing the weight of equipment alone becomes an issue as you age. It starts to have a negative effect on physical endurance, joint pain etc. wearing the body armour was causing me back problems so the organisation had to spend £700 having sone custom tailored for me to accept lightweight inserts.
You can be superfit and there comes a point in the dibble where age negates it. I'm a power lifter, as is a good friend of mine, abd also a keen cyclist. The gym is usually heaving with body builders, there are more triathletes than you can shake a brown stick at (triathlons are very popular with officers) , yet even for the best of us there comes a point around 40ish where you notice the ability to 'keep up' starts to degrade. That isn't anyone's fault, it's just nature.
I have empathy with everyone in a physical role from dust men to forest rangers who are being anally teamed by a government that thinks bucking ones ideas up is all that is required to work until 154 years of age before claiming a pension.
Before anyone is permitted to become an MP there should be a list of professions from which they must have held a job for at least 5 years before they're eligible to apply. Policing, primary healtcare, nanufacturing, military in an enlisted rank... I'm sure we can list a few, give these idiots a reality check.
I did offer to take medical retirement but the decided that if they're going to pay me anyway they may as well get some work out of me, which is fair play.
Trust me screen man. Apart from the minor disability I'm a 43 year old of well above average fitness. Even so, there's no way in hell ill catch an 18 year old in hoodie and trainers hopped up on Lord knows what, never mind doing so while weighed down with all the kit.
Indeed, wearing the weight of equipment alone becomes an issue as you age. It starts to have a negative effect on physical endurance, joint pain etc. wearing the body armour was causing me back problems so the organisation had to spend £700 having sone custom tailored for me to accept lightweight inserts.
You can be superfit and there comes a point in the dibble where age negates it. I'm a power lifter, as is a good friend of mine, abd also a keen cyclist. The gym is usually heaving with body builders, there are more triathletes than you can shake a brown stick at (triathlons are very popular with officers) , yet even for the best of us there comes a point around 40ish where you notice the ability to 'keep up' starts to degrade. That isn't anyone's fault, it's just nature.
I have empathy with everyone in a physical role from dust men to forest rangers who are being anally teamed by a government that thinks bucking ones ideas up is all that is required to work until 154 years of age before claiming a pension.
Before anyone is permitted to become an MP there should be a list of professions from which they must have held a job for at least 5 years before they're eligible to apply. Policing, primary healtcare, nanufacturing, military in an enlisted rank... I'm sure we can list a few, give these idiots a reality check.
gary in derby
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Derby
just wondering if you have ever been on a roof in the middle of winter? I have and can tell you not a nice place to be.2119705 said:
you dont see many old roofers or bricklayers, as their bodies are knackered long before old age.