Pensions

[Flying Dodo]

Policy Exchange made the case for reform, however, saying that the annual cost of taxpayer contributions to police pensions has doubled, rising from £951m in 1995/96 to £1.9bn in 2009/10

Policy Exchange believe that members who joined before 2006 receive benefits worth about 35 per cent of their annual salary, paid for by the taxpayer.

The maximum pension is now half of final salary, plus a lump sum of four times final salary. The new minimum retirement age is 55.

My question to the pension experts out there how much would be needed in the pot to pay this out?

The Police Pension Scheme, like most public service schemes, is a pay as you go scheme whereby current pensioners are paid out of the incoming contributions and general Government coffers, so it doesn't build up a fund to cover current and future liabilities. So all you can do is compare what an individual would have to have built up to secure an equivalent pension. Which of course depends upon what final salary and years of service you want to assume for a police officer. However, assuming a final salary of £36,000, under the current scheme, that means a maximum pension of £18,000 pa

For a 55 year old to retire now on an RPI linked pension starting at £18,000 pa, plus an allowance for a 50% dependent's pension would require a fund of around £900,000. But that figure is academic, as the Government isn't having to pay out £900,000, either now or over the lifetime of a retired copper.

 

[MontyVeda]

Blame the Tories all you like but it wasn't just them. Labour wiped out a huge chunk of personal pension worth when Blair/Brown did their pensions tax grab.

Don't kid yourself that this is divided down party lines. They will ALL sell you down the river given the opportunity and they will ALL protect their own inflated, undeserved pension with every fibre of their being.

This country is facing a huge problem based around retirement, pensions and the effects on employment. They can't fix it because they don't know how. Proposing to tax the rich more doesn't work - they have accountants who will always find a way round this stuff. It always ends up falling on the masses, always. As I said above, be careful what you wish for as it will come out of our pockets.

Whilst I agree with every word of this... that cant fix it because they don't want to... mass unemployment and huge amounts of people dependent on welfare & benefits suits a capitalist society perfectly. Why pay them a decent wage when you can hand out meagre benefits and blame all the 'problems' on them?

 

[Longshot]

Whilst I agree with every word of this... that cant fix it because they don't want to... mass unemployment and huge amounts of people dependent on welfare & benefits suits a capitalist society perfectly. Why pay them a decent wage when you can hand out meagre benefits and blame all the 'problems' on them?

I'd suggest you are mistaken. The cunning capitalist plan is this:

1. Employ as many people as possible.
2. Pay them peanuts
3. Keep triple the amount of peanuts for yourself
4. Coat those peanuts in chocolate
5. Write off the cost of the chocolate coating against tax
6. Lobby your mate the MP and suggest that chocolate coated peanuts should be exempt from CGT, IHT, UHT and DDT
7. Advise the HMRC that the plants that the peanuts grew were not indigenous to the UK and therefore any tax due on earnings derived from those plants should be paid at the source country
8. Eat the peanuts
9. Blame immigrants (and cyclists) for all problems

 

[grumpyoldgit]

When I was about 19,a long time ago,I was self employed.I didnt pay my NI stamp for a few weeks,so they sent someone round to interview me.I was told that this was my pension that I was paying in for,& if I missed any more stamps,my eventual pension amount would be affected.Shame I didnt get that in writing,as I could retire on a massive pension now.

 

[Milo]

[QUOTE 2120283, member: 9609"]I suppose it depends what age group your grandparents are. People who retired 20 - 30 years ago got fantastic deals. My dad now 86 received an indexed linked pension equivalent to 17% of his pension pot when he was 65 - I think he has had his money back nearly 5x now.
Retire now at 65 and you will be lucky to get 3½% of your pension pot per annum (indexed)[/quote]
My nan is nearly 90 now.

 

[screenman]

2 of my friends are retired policemen, both have been retired now for over 32 years. Good luck to them and long may they last, both admit which many will not that they are over paid pension wise. Mind you they have not offered me any of it.

I know that my friends in the force would be very hard pressed to find such a good paying job in our county with their current skill level. They know it as well.

 

[asterix]

I am fairly confident that roofers don't have to chase the tiles about but, if you know otherwise, I shall defer to your greater knowledge.

You are wise to do so.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Because you'd have no one wanting to join. They'd then have to lower standards so much to keep recruitment levels going and you'd end up down the U bend.

They don't join for the money - my brother is a shift manager in a clothing warehouse, 8 to 4, weekends off, biggest danger is a paper cut - and he comfortably out earns me with 26 years reckonable service.

Remove the incentive and not only would you have trouble with recruitment, but the existing officers bound to the job solely by pension provision will quit on the spot, and the country would be truly Donald ducked.

W

I disagree.

With unemployment as it is I don't think there would be any problem re recruiting.

The salary is not bad at all for the calibre of person employed esp' at the lower end of the force structure.

The current pensions are staggering and if we are all living longer and feeling the pension heat I see no reason why police cannot work till the same age as the rest of us and retire on a more affordable pension.

I think it is obscene that an officer can retire in their early fifties with a 4 x salary lump sum and in private sector terms a *loody huge pension.

To be honest I am sick and tired of the spin put on police, firemen and nurses - they all get a reasonable salary these days and a good number of them are not heroes saving the planet as the press would have us believe. Generally they get paid a fair bit more than a squaddie whose life can be in mortal danger day after day.

 

[Longshot]

I completely understand why the police retire from active duty at an early age but it seems ludicrous to me that some, if not all, could be used to do the many jobs in which civilians are employed within the police forces. Many of these jobs would benefit from the years of first hand experience that officers have.

 

[screenman]

I think some civilian jobs are done by the ex-police who have taken early retirement, then decided to go back to work. Being retired early cannot be easy if you are used to working hard throughout your life.

 

[mrandmrspoves]

I can see why people not lucky enough to be in a final salary pension scheme resent those that are. BUT not all final salary schemes are equal and certainly they're not the Gold plated schemes the Tories want the public to believe them to be. I am a nurse and ha've been since I was 18 - my pay is quite good and I know that many people on this forum would describe it as excellent. I earn just over 40k a year as a ward manager (senior sister in old money) Terms and conditions are good as should be my pension (on the old scheme I can retire after 40 years service and will get half my salary as my pension) I didn't choose nursing as a career for the money it was genuinely a vocation. I have in my 30 years service always been aware that I am a public servant and have always strived to give good service. I am proud of my chosen career and the knowledge that there are people alive today because of my knowledge, skills and actions (the public paid to give me my qualification - so I have a duty to repay them) .....
Please don't resent public servants getting paid to serve the public....this government wants to destroy public service....and replace it with pensioners forced to do "voluntary work"

 

[wait4me]

I think some civilian jobs are done by the ex-police who have taken early retirement, then decided to go back to work. Being retired early cannot be easy if you are used to working hard throughout your life.

You are having a larf!
I worked as an electrician doing various shift patterns over the years, 3 shift/4days on 4 off/etc. a 50 hour week was like part time. I was 65 earlier this year am retired and (as long as a certain industrial desease doesn't rear its ubly head any higher) enjoying every minute.--cycling, gardening,caravaning,fishing. How on earth did I have time too go to work?

 

[screenman]

mrandmrspoves, whilst not all final year salary pensions are the same, neither are are public workers. You are to be commended for your dedication, I have met many that work and many that skive.

Wait4me, I was.

 

[mrandmrspoves]

mrandmrspoves, whilst not all final year salary pensions are the same, neither are are public workers. You are to be commended for your dedication, I have met many that work and many that skive.

Wait4me, I was.

Indeed there are some skivers.....but this is not exceptional to public servants. What is probably exceptional to public servants is the many who go above and beyond every day for the love of the job and the people they serve - where there is no financial reward for doing so. This goes for some police, some health workers, some teachers, some social workers etc....but not all, and I don't claim that all nurses are angels! I am proud to be a public servant and hope that this country wakes up to the fact that this government wants to destroy public service. We serve you the public, you the public deserve good service and we deserve to be fairly paid and receive a fair pension for providing this service. Our pensions are not an extra they are part of our employment terms. In the past I have been approached by head hunters from the private sector, I was offered more money and a company pension scheme. I didn't go for 2 reasons;
1) I love and strongly believe in the NHS)
2) I was not guaranteed the same long term job security (although this is now rapidly being eroded) or final pension.
It is totally wrong therefore for this government to tear this up based on the lie that it is no longer affordable (it is still affordable because the last government took steps which included increasing our contributions and altering pension terms for staff starting since 1995 to make sure it was

 

[PK99]

With £500K buying an annuity of £19K or so at 65, he's right. I have worked alongside public sector workers who I have the greatest respect for, but when a discussion has turned to pensions or investments many just don't 'get it' when it comes to the choices available to people outside final salary schemes.

Many do not even get the idea that Final Salary Pension after 40 years in the private sector means 40/80 or 40/60 of final salary for very few people as most people in such schemes move between jobs and companies as they build a career and pension is the sum of a number of lower salaries, effectively close to a career average pension even hafter spending 40 years in Final salary schemes.

In most of the public sector, pensionable service is based on number of years in the public sector (very favourable transfer terms between schemes) - 40 years in teaching at a range of schools building a career and then into a local authority education department and the pension will be based on whole 40 years and final salary on retirement.