Pensions

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If you look at the NHS pension scheme it did and still does pay a surplus to the treasury every year and has done for years.....so it IS affordable.

It's an unfunded pension scheme. Although currently the contributions paid by employees and employers exceeds the annual amount of pensions being paid out, in future tax years, it won't. The current unfunded liability for current and future pensioners as at 31 March 2011 is £257.7 billion. The whole reason for Government pension reform, as started by the previous administration, is to ensure their long term future by making them affordable and sustainable.
 

SpokeyDokey

68, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
Not a blinkered view at all!
Nor do I think I am a hero - I have clearly indicated that I owe society a debt, and that I am reasonably well paid...BTW you wrote private sector workers when you meant to write public sector.

I have not claimed that all public sector workers are hard working or dedicated. Nor did I claim that private sector workers don't work hard or are not dedicated - but within the private sector the motivation is often for different reasons.

What level of pensions are you talking about when you say this country can't afford them?
I have already pointed out that not all public sector pensions are the same. The old NHS scheme paid a maximum of 50% of final salary after 40 years service - The Police pension paid 60% of final salary after 30 years service - so let's not lump them together! (The police did pay a higher % of their salary for their pension)
If you look at the NHS pension scheme it did and still does pay a surplus to the treasury every year and has done for years.....so it IS affordable.

Again you suggest that my claim of being headhunted is a bleat...even though I have already acknowledged that I am reasonably well paid and many people would be understandably envious of my terms and conditions!
You also suggest that there would be a difficulty recruiting if pay and conditions were poor.....go and look in your local hospital and see where the nurses come from. Here in Norfolk about a 3rd of the qualified nursing staff were recruited from Portugal, Spain or the Philippines because until recently (when this government started making huge cuts to the NHS budget.....they call this "Cost improvements") hospitals could not recruit enough nurses.

So to summarise....
I do not think public sector staff are all heroes.
I do not think public sector staff are badly paid.
I do not think that all public sector pensions were sustainable without being reviewed.

However I also KNOW that not all public sector staff have Gold Plated pensions....

I do strongly believe that this government is playing divide and conquer and responses such as yours show that they are succeeding.

No good getting all touchy when someone picks you up on what was a crass statement to make imo.

Re pedantic observation of private vs public error. My bad and thanks for letting me know. Horsehair jacket donned and I'll get the Good Lady to administer 50 lashes later tonight.

My local hospital appears to be staffed with UK nationals. Sadly I have to visit regularly so I do know about this from personal experience.

Re cuts: about time too in some areas. The unit I visit has a 1 nurse attending each consultant on duty whose sole function appears to be the sitter-downer and door opener. They also have 1 nurse whose sole job appears to be weighing patients. Additionally they also have a nurse whose function is to take the computerised slip from the auto check-in unit and put it in the little perspex box by each consultants door. Great use of quite expensive staff.

BTW the auto check-in unit was supposed to provide savings in staff numbers in the OP reception. The same staff are still there 1 year on

3 years ago I had to spend 5 days in an eye hospital ward - 4 patients in each night inc' me and 3 nurses on the ward who spent the whole night chatting quietly and reading books.

Don't get me wrong, I think the NHS provides a good service and that some employees have very tough jobs but efficient it isn't.

I don't think that this government is playing divide and conquer at all. I'd say it is dealing with a public sector cost that is not sustainable in the current climate.
 

Canrider

Guru
3 years ago I had to spend 5 days in an eye hospital ward - 4 patients in each night inc' me and 3 nurses on the ward who spent the whole night chatting quietly and reading books.
That's not much information to base much of anything on...what were the 4 in for, what range of patients did the ward care for (ie, was it just 'eye patients', whatever those are?), and so on...

2 years ago I had to spend 3 days on 2 occasions with Miss Canrider in a children's ward--roughly 4 patients starting each night, but on two nights rising to overcapacity by the wee hours, with 1 night registrar and 3 nurses to deal with the influx. If you missed the days when they had to move the odd mountain, you might well have caught them 'chatting quietly and reading books'. And I'm happy to pay for them to continue to do so if it means they're there when the rush comes.
 

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
Thanks for dissecting Hutton report. I asked you where it was stated and you did... so fair play to you...
I can still provide plenty of counter evidence that demonstrates that the changes that had already been agreed under the labour government would have been sufficient.
But yes it is reasonable to question what is affordable.....should we be spending money on foreign aid to India to enable them to have better contraceptive services while cutting NHS expenditure may be an example.
 
But yes it is reasonable to question what is affordable.....should we be spending money on foreign aid to India to enable them to have better contraceptive services while cutting NHS expenditure may be an example.

Tricky one. Especially in the example you've raised of aid to India, where they've indicated they'd prefer not to have our aid. Currently we give £280 million pa to India. Although of course foreign aid is often targeted to things which the host nation may not cover in detail.

Personally I think £280 million can have a far bigger impact being spent now, in countries which are far worse off than the UK, rather than being absorbed by the Government to make a tiny difference to UK pensioners in 20 years time.
 

SpokeyDokey

68, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
And I'm happy to pay for them to continue to do so if it means they're there when the rush comes.

Well good for you - sadly the country is in a slight mess and cuts need to be made. I too am happy to pay for a service but I'm not happy to pay for the flabbiness that tends to be inherent in organisations that do not have to be particularly efficient to survive.
 

Canrider

Guru
Well good for you - sadly the country is in a slight mess and cuts need to be made. I too am happy to pay for a service but I'm not happy to pay for the flabbiness that tends to be inherent in organisations that do not have to be particularly efficient to survive.
So when we rocked up to the antenatal ward at 3am on November 12th 2008 and found we were the only couple there, what would have been the most 'particularly efficient' number of midwives and related staff to have on hand for the four delivery rooms?
 

swee'pea99

Squire
Well good for you - sadly the country is in a slight mess and cuts need to be made. I too am happy to pay for a service but I'm not happy to pay for the flabbiness that tends to be inherent in organisations that do not have to be particularly efficient to survive.
As quoted in another thread:

"...when it comes to military procurement, Israel spends £9 billion a year and administers its purchases with 400 people. Britain spends £10 billion annually on procurement and has a staff of 23,700 to do it."
 
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