Plans to make the Bristol-Bath Cycle Path a Bus Route

[Riverman]

Why not? Buses work very well in Oxford, Cambridge and other medium sized cities. The key point, as Richard says earlier, is that they need to be given priority and have road space reallocated to them from cars. You can't expect cycling to replace all local trips, some people simply can't or won't cycle and even in cities where cycling has a large modal share it is predominantly for the shorter trips or up to 2 or 3 miles. I find it highly unlikely that Southampton has such unusually short trip lengths that there isn't a role for buses to replace car journeys in significant numbers for those journeys that are outside mass walking or cycling distances. As regards rail based systems, clearly they are much more expensive, and I'd agree with Richard's view that you should start by prioritising buses properly, however other countries have managed to make light rail work successfully in cities like Southampton (which is of course part of a much larger conurbation, with many other large population centres close by).

What I said is that residents of Southampton don't need mass transit systems beyond beyond occasional buses for long journeys. They'll always be a need for buses in cities but unless more are modified to carry bicycles I don't think they have that much of a future.

Personally I've always been a strong advocate of the use of private transport for short journeys. I will admit there is a danger of course that enthusiasm for private transport gets mistaken for enthusiasm for the car which means pointing out flaws in mass transit systems can be a bit counter-productive, because the last thing I want are loads of people driving cars, especially for short journeys.

We can argue about what a short journey actually is. No city is the same but the bicycle or electric bicycle should be the most efficient, reliable, healthy, environmentally friendly way of getting people from A to B. IMO what makes cycling stand out most is that it's a private form of transport and therefore has so many advantages over bus services for short journeys.

Whilst the obstacles to cycling are numerous and can be hard to overcome for some, especially during certain times of the year, at least with cycling you don't stand the chance of your form of transport arriving late, and having to take a massive detour around the houses to pick other people up.With cycling you won't have to pay extortionate amounts to private companies to run the service, you don't have to stop almost 20 times on the way to your destination.... etc. etc...

Who are the people most likely to take up cycling? In my experience the people most likely to cycle are people who use bus services and don't drive cars. Therefore we should not hesitate to point out the limitations of using bus services. The vast majority of people in this city would find it easier IMO to get around using either a bicycle or in some cases (and certainly for the more hilly cities) an electric bike. Sadly the initial outlay of an electric bike makes that not an option. I only hope that the cost of these electric devices begins to really come down. I will admit there's a greater need in getting people out of their cars and onto bikes, than there is in getting people out of buses but I just think that bus users are likely to appreciate the benefits of cycling more than motorists.


Obviously there are certain groups that will always need to use buses.. women on their way home sometimes, or elderly people but even then there should be other infrastructure in place to enable them and to make them feel safe on at least part of the journey on their way home, if they want to use a bike on part of it. This is where bike racks on buses would come in especially.

 

[Richard Mann]

Southampton doesn't need mass transit systems beyond occasional buses for long journeys. It's not big enough and besides, Southampton is a very easy city to get around by bike. Like may other cities what Southampton needs are improved cycle routes but most importantly a campaign to get people cycling. I have lived in Southampton for ten years and have cycled for about five of those years. I would never go back to using buses, they're a joke and always will be a joke no matter how frequent they are. They're just not very well suited to serve this city.

Journeys to central Oxford (inner cordon counts) show a whopping 43% bus (and only just over 10% bike). Oxford has a lot of in-commuting, but I daresay Southampton does too. People from the further suburbs, and dormitory settlements are much more likely to use a bus than cycle.

There are other ways of doing it, of course, but if you major on buses, with bikes playing a complementary role, you're more likely to have success in reducing the impact that traffic has on your town.

 

[Riverman]

Journeys to central Oxford (inner cordon counts) show a whopping 43% bus (and only just over 10% bike). Oxford has a lot of in-commuting, but I daresay Southampton does too. People from the further suburbs, and dormitory settlements are much more likely to use a bus than cycle.

There are other ways of doing it, of course, but if you major on buses, with bikes playing a complementary role, you're more likely to have success in reducing the impact that traffic has on your town.

Absolutely. I'm sorry I guess I just still feel that Southampton just isn't big enough on its own to justify a huge bus network. Maybe if you include the outer areas like Hedge End, Chandler's Ford, Totton etc but technically that's not Southampton and even then places like Totton are very commutable. You can do Southampton to Totton on a bike almost all along side roads and cycle paths in about 15 minutes. It's almost all flat.

Problem with that commute is it's along the docks, and the cycle route isn't very clearly marked and because of the docks there are loads of lorries which must put a lot of people off cycling there. They really need to sort it out.

Ah sorry to hijack this thread!

 

[jonesy]

Absolutely. I'm sorry I guess I just still feel that Southampton just isn't big enough on its own to justify a huge bus network. Maybe if you include the outer areas like Hedge End, Chandler's Ford, Totton etc but technically that's not Southampton and even then places like Totton are very commutable. You can do Southampton to Totton on a bike almost all along side roads and cycle paths in about 15 minutes. It's almost all flat.

Problem with that commute is it's along the docks, and the cycle route isn't very clearly marked and because of the docks there are loads of lorries which must put a lot of people off cycling there. They really need to sort it out.

Ah sorry to hijack this thread!

It isn't the council boundary that matters, it is the travel to work area, the location of origins and destinations etc. Last time I was down that way there was an awful lot of car traffic on the roads, and pretty major roads at that! You merely need to look a map to see that the built up area along that part of the south coast is much larger than could be served by walking and cycling (remembering that mass cycling is for short distances, what you or I, or others on this forum might be prepared to do is largely irrelevant to this discussion), and is also larger than places like Oxford and Cambridge that are well able to sustain a comprehensive network of high frequency bus services.

 

[Riverman]

It isn't the council boundary that matters, it is the travel to work area, the location of origins and destinations etc. Last time I was down that way there was an awful lot of car traffic on the roads, and pretty major roads at that! You merely need to look a map to see that the built up area along that part of the south coast is much larger than could be served by walking and cycling (remembering that mass cycling is for short distances, what you or I, or others on this forum might be prepared to do is largely irrelevant to this discussion), and is also larger than places like Oxford and Cambridge that are well able to sustain a comprehensive network of high frequency bus services.

Yeah, we seem to have got our wires crossed here. I was referring to Southampton the city. I understand people commute from those areas and I know this sounds pedantic but that doesn't mean they're part of Southampton.

The point I was trying to make is that there is no need for most people who live within the city of Southampton to use buses when travelling within the boundary. This 'city' is very easy to get around using bikes. I should point out that there are entire bus companies in Southampton dedicated to serving people WITHIN the city boundary (Uni-link for eg.) and plenty of buses that operate that only operate within that boundry. IMO there's hardly any need for them at all.

http://www.unilinkbu.../networkmap.pdf

edit: I forgot that Uni-link has now merged with Bluestar, so technically they now serve a wider area. coincidently though they happen to be some of the busiest buses. Obviously a lot of students use them but they're quite popular with locals.

 

[Riverman]

Looks like there's calls for these 'bus ways' to become common place in the UK, considering these buses don't even take bikes it's a bit rich to put them on disused railway lines that as the OP says are traditionally used by bikes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14405734

Not 100% against the idea but it seems a bit silly to design the route for the bus rather than the other way round. Why not create a bus that can more efficiently use the space?Using regular buses is just a cheap way of doing it. It may be practical at first but what would be really cool is to design a really long bus that splits once it reaches its destination and one that actually takes bikes! The addition of a trailer would probably be the easiest way to do it.

I see they go at 55mph and 30mph when they reach public highways. Seems a bit slow if they are to compete with motorways especially as they have to make loads of stops which has always been a major and overlooked problem with bus travel.