Please help an old man whose struggling.

[Tony Norton]

Hi All,

You may not agree with my motives for cycling, but being recently bereaved I felt I had to have a goal to work towards. I settled on the idea of getting a motorbike license, which I have never had because my late wife, being more sensible than I, was against it. OK, so what am I, at 83, doing on a cycling forum? The answer is that my motorbike instructor effectively told me ".. go and log 10 hours on a pedal cycle to try to restore your sense of balance, then come back to me." I've done nearly 3 hours so far.

Of course I used to cycle when at school, every kid did in those days, and carried on for a while when I was an apprentice until I discovered cars. They became my life from thereon in and I rallied and raced for most of my married life. For my 70th birthday my wife bought me a Barracuda "old style" road racer (horizontal crossbar), which I happily used for quite a few years. Then I sold it, thinking I would probably never get on a bike again.

However, when told so to do, I purchased for £40 an old "Rhino FS-AL nitrate" mountain bike, well that's what it says on the frame. I've done a bit of fettling, road tyres, a more comfortable saddle on a Ritchey seatpost, and different pedals. There is one thing, however, that I am having difficulty getting to grips with, the straight forks on the mountain bike offer little or no castor action, with the result that when I need to signal I have to be coasting, otherwise I become very unsteady. What I perceive as a need to keep both hands on the handlebars all the time is a matter of some concern. I didn't have that problem with my Barracuda, although admittedly I was the best part of 10 years younger then.

The Rhino has full front and rear suspension. Would it be possible to change the front forks for a rigid set with the, what I regard as normal, forward curve at the bottom end, which I believe is what creates the castor action on road bikes?

I would welcome any advice you guys can offer, and thank you in advance.

Tony Norton

 

[Gunk]

Tony, welcome to the forum and I think it's great idea getting your Motorcycle licence! I wouldn't worry too much about the equipment, just find an empty car park (plenty of those available at the moment) and just try doing simple exercises to build up your confidence. It is just practice.

 

[Lovacott]

If you are pedalling with one hand on the bar, your single arm on the bar will be a counter force to your foot movements. It's something I never think about and it's one of those things you pick up as a five year old kid. You are only using one hand when you signal to turn so you need some practice. Next time you are on a straight section, take your right arm off the bar and pedal away. After about 100 yards, you'll be an expert.

 

[MichaelW2]

Are the forks assembled the right way around?. Some are sold with the forks facing back due to idiot assembers.
Putting non sus forks on a full sus frame is something I have never heard nor seen. Perhaps there is a reason? I dont know.

I suggest you sell your wannabe MTB and get an entry level hybrid style bike, the correct size, from a reputable brand. Even after you get your motorbike, it will still be useful for local trips and shopping.

 

[I like Skol]

Just a thought, so going to throw this out there, but are the forks on back to front?

You don't need curved forks for castor/rake/offset, call it what you will. Straight forks still behave the same as curved ones, but there are an absurdley high number of bikes (usually cheaper Halfords or supermarket bikes) that are assembled with the forks the wrong way in error. This obviously screws up the castor.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

 

[Cycleops]

Hello Tony and to the forum.

You've done well getting a bike, but it's not worth messing with. What you have bought is what's commonly known on this forum as a BSO (Bicycle Shaped Object). A bike made to the lowest common denominator for sale in catalogues and service stations etc. with cheap components but tarted up to appeal the impulse buyer.
My advice would be to put it eBay Gumtree or whatever and look for a good secondhand mountain bike, road bike with drops or probably favourite, a hybrid. Try to get one from the major producers, Specialized, Trek, Scott, Ridgeback etc. Then you'll be at least guaranteed a well sorted good performing mount which you can 'tune' to your liking.
Forget about the motorbike, well I would say that wouldn't I . I used to ride them when younger but I don't think I'd have the strength to haul one about now, and the cycle will give you more health benefits.

Good luck in whatever you do.

 

[nickyboy]

Tony, am I correct in saying that the objective of buying the bike is to ride it for 10 hours or so to get your two-wheel balance back and then get on with the motorcycle and forget the push bike?
If that is the case, forget the well meaning advice to buy a better bike etc. The one you bought is perfectly adequate

If you can make sure the forks are on the right way round just go to a park or wherever and have a bit of practice. Suspect that the issues you are facing are connected to confidence on a push bike (so the advice you got from your motorcycle instructor was good)

 

[Darius_Jedburgh]

It might be worth checking out bike hire shops. You will probably get a better bike in better condition than the one you say you have. A couple of days pootling around in a local park then quiet roads will help enormously.
"If" you can find hire bikes at present.
Where are you based. It's even possible some on here could help.

 

[Chap sur le velo]

Welcome Tony (I've always been attached to that name!)

If you're really determined to ride a motorbike then I have to ask if you actually need to remove your hands from the bars? On a motorbike signals are mostly electronic? (note you need to check this with your instructor I don't ride motorbikes).

If so find a local park and safely practice your balance until you are comfortable riding?

(Actually I really think you should persevere with pedal power! Can you adapt one to add indicators, I see you already like "fettling".
Hopefully the others are correct and a decent bike and a bit of practice will sort this out.)


Good luck!

 

[FishFright]

Hi All,

You may not agree with my motives for cycling, but being recently bereaved I felt I had to have a goal to work towards. I settled on the idea of getting a motorbike license, which I have never had because my late wife, being more sensible than I, was against it. OK, so what am I, at 83, doing on a cycling forum? The answer is that my motorbike instructor effectively told me ".. go and log 10 hours on a pedal cycle to try to restore your sense of balance, then come back to me." I've done nearly 3 hours so far.

Of course I used to cycle when at school, every kid did in those days, and carried on for a while when I was an apprentice until I discovered cars. They became my life from thereon in and I rallied and raced for most of my married life. For my 70th birthday my wife bought me a Barracuda "old style" road racer (horizontal crossbar), which I happily used for quite a few years. Then I sold it, thinking I would probably never get on a bike again.

However, when told so to do, I purchased for £40 an old "Rhino FS-AL nitrate" mountain bike, well that's what it says on the frame. I've done a bit of fettling, road tyres, a more comfortable saddle on a Ritchey seatpost, and different pedals. There is one thing, however, that I am having difficulty getting to grips with, the straight forks on the mountain bike offer little or no castor action, with the result that when I need to signal I have to be coasting, otherwise I become very unsteady. What I perceive as a need to keep both hands on the handlebars all the time is a matter of some concern. I didn't have that problem with my Barracuda, although admittedly I was the best part of 10 years younger then.

The Rhino has full front and rear suspension. Would it be possible to change the front forks for a rigid set with the, what I regard as normal, forward curve at the bottom end, which I believe is what creates the castor action on road bikes?

I would welcome any advice you guys can offer, and thank you in advance.

Tony Norton

Although I'm quite a few years younger than you I too have lost some of my balance. I had 2 ear infections what damaged my balance somewhat, just after I finished building a trials bicycle too !.
Cycling has really helped rebuilding my balance but it took way more than 10 hours to get back to having good balance again, around two years. But hey onwards and upwards.

But that bike really is rubbish.

 

[mjr]

I hate to condemn a bike but I don't think it's the forks to blame so much as the design. You may be able to replace the forks, but it would be easy to make a dangerous mistake and it will probably cost more than selling that bike to someone who wants a cheap trails tricks bike and buying a dependable secondhand stable hybrid or town bike.

I think - and people with better physics understanding than me may correct me - the same effect as curved forks is created by using a triangle of three straight poles at the front there, motorcycle style.
I wonder whether the bike fits you and if not, whether you are leaning on your hands, resulting in the steering difficulty, but I suspect that is just a very twitchy design of bike.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I suggest you sell your wannabe MTB and get an entry level hybrid style bike, the correct size, from a reputable brand. Even after you get your motorbike, it will still be useful for local trips and shopping.

Agree, I would not wish a cheapo full-sus MTB on my worst enemy. They are awful things to ride, complete and utter dogs. Get something sensible with comfortable and predictable handling, like an old Raleigh Pioneer.
Fitting rigid forks to a sus frame is pointless and a waste of effort and cash. A frame with suspension-specific geometry will not take a standard type rigid fork as it will have too short blades, and if fitted, will substantially steepen the head and seat tube angles and give dodgy handling.

 

[Tony Norton]

Well, I reckon I chose the right Forum. 8 replies in the first evening! You guys are active aren't you. Good advice from all of you, and "nickyboy" hit the nail on the head regarding my instructor's motives. Re the bike, I think I'll stick with what I have, I've probably thrown enough money at the exercise already, new tyres etc. Research tells me that Rhino are originally a stateside company. The bike, as I said, has front and rear suspension, 18 twist grip operated gears (3 x 6) and old style caliper brakes operating on the wheel rims. When I were a lad a 5 speed block and a double clanger was high tech!

Regarding the forks being the right way round, I understand where those who mentioned this are coming from. A lot of mountain bike forks have lugs at the bottom, protruding forward, that the front axle attaches to. My forks don't have these, they are dead straight with the slots for the front axle being bang in line with the steering post, so the castor effect is only as much as the difference between the angle of of the steering post and vertical which, on my Rhino is 4/5ths of 5/8ths of not very much. I think the car park suggestions are good, probably better than the the 2 or 3 miles I am currently doing at each session. Thinking about it, a whole lot better, as the major problem I had with the motorbike was riding it at not much above walking pace, and doing figure of 8s and slaloms in a confined area. To do this one has to control the speed, not with throttle, but by setting the throttle and slipping the clutch. A previous instructor had a tarmac area about the size of a football pitch, which I was quite happy doing laps of in second or third gear, but not happy trying to do a slalom. Probably because whereas I was OK with left hand down circuits, I was not so comfortable going right hand down. Is this a symptom that other late starting cyclists have come across?

Thanks for your help, all of you. Tomorrow I shall do some car park practice. At least it will save my poor old legs from pedaling up the hill on my normal route.

Thanks again to all of you, will update in a week or so and let you know how it's going.

Tony

 

[Tony Norton]

View attachment 576418

I hate to condemn a bike but I don't think it's the forks to blame so much as the design. You may be able to replace the forks, but it would be easy to make a dangerous mistake and it will probably cost more than selling that bike to someone who wants a cheap trails tricks bike and buying a dependable secondhand stable hybrid or town bike.

I think - and people with better physics understanding than me may correct me - the same effect as curved forks is created by using a triangle of three straight poles at the front there, motorcycle style.
I wonder whether the bike fits you and if not, whether you are leaning on your hands, resulting in the steering difficulty, but I suspect that is just a very twitchy design of bike.

Hi mjr, the picture you posted is exactly the same as my bike. The thing I find "odd" about it is that I feel I am sat too much over the crank compared to my Barracuda. Is that typical of all mountain bikes?

Tony

 

[Tony Norton]

Agree, I would not wish a cheapo full-sus MTB on my worst enemy. They are awful things to ride, complete and utter dogs. Get something sensible with comfortable and predictable handling, like an old Raleigh Pioneer.
Fitting rigid forks to a sus frame is pointless and a waste of effort and cash. A frame with suspension-specific geometry will not take a standard type rigid fork as it will have too short blades, and if fitted, will substantially steepen the head and seat tube angles and give dodgy handling.

Hi Skipdiverjohn,

I must admit that I do sometimes feel that I am fighting something that even an experienced rider might find uncomfortable (see my reply to mjr), and I think I will forget the idea of changing the forks. I did, for a few days, start with a hybrid, but I felt like a circus clown on a monkey bike so I quickly changed that and the Rhino was the only one available for tens of pounds rather than hundreds. One slight problem is, at my age I have difficulty getting my leg over, no tittering at the back please, so an old fashioned frame with a horizontal crossbar would probably not be the best option. More modern frames at least give me the chance, if I have to stop, to slide forward of the saddle and then be able to reach the ground.

Thanks for your comments.

Tony