Police Action in Liverpool.

[matthat]

Hi all,
I attend a cycling forum which Liverpool council run and this is a circular e-mail that I have received from the forum organiser originally from merseyside police. I have checked that I am ok Posting here so thought I would put it up for general review and discussion.
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Cycle Activity Day' conducted by Merseyside Police, aimed at raising awareness among road users of cycle casualty issues.

· engagement conducted on Mersey ferries between 7 - 8am.
· static display vehicle on Church Street , L1 - engagement with passing cyclists and general public on cycle and pedestrian issues
· 8 police officers / PCSOs on cycle patrol - briefed to talk to any cyclists and provide road safety message. No pressure to prosecute unless deemed neccesary.
· 2 police motorcyclists on patrol in city centre. 35 drivers spoken to. 7 fixed penalties/prosecutions for various offences inc. failing to comply with advanced stop lines at junctions and cycle lane obstruction.
· Approx. 300 cyclists were spoken to overall and provided with cycle maps/ cycle training advice.

Some feedback from cyclists who were stopped included ;

· complaints from cyclists of other cyclists 'speeding' along the prom - using it as a race track
· a large number did not wear helmets
· a number wore headphones
· a number expressed that they primarily ride on pavements thru' fear of traffic
· not enough cycle lanes
· taxis ranking in cycle lane by anglical cathedral
· Park Road in Liverpool unduly narrow due to central islands - cyclists at risk from passing traffic
· many cyclists were critical of other cyclists who did not obey rules of the road

Overall a good day and one that we may repeat on a quarterly basis at different locations.

 

[Globalti]

I wish the Police could bring the same resources to bear on muppets in Audis who think the rules of the road don't apply to them because they're all Jason Stathams.

 

[Frood42]

" ·static display vehicle on Church Street , L1 - engagement with passing cyclists and general public on cycle and pedestrian issues"
Without seeing the display vehicle or the street it was based on it is hard to say how effective it would have been, but at least they are out with a display and making an effort.

"7 fixed penalties/prosecutions for various offences inc. failing to comply with advanced stop lines at junctions and cycle lane obstruction."
Good to read that ASL and cycle lane obstruction is on the radar.

"·Approx. 300 cyclists were spoken to overall and provided with cycle maps/ cycle training advice."
Would be good to know what training advice was being given, do you know?
I have seen some PCSO's around on my commute, and the road/cycle craft was not great, not abysmal, but not great.

"Some feedback from cyclists who were stopped included ;
·a large number did not wear helmets"
Really? I have a choice of whether to wear one or not, and I do not make judgements on other cyclists in this regard.
I am not currently wearing a helmet in this weather, but I did during the colder weather. You should be able to cycle in confidence without a helmet as I do. The problem is not the cyclist who is not wearing a helmet, the problem is the minority of other road users not using the road appropriately... it is that inconsiderate minority that need to be cracked down on, not the cyclists not wearing a helmet.

" ·a number wore headphones"
I don't do this, but it is no different to having the radio on in the car...

" ·a number expressed that they primarily ride on pavements thru' fear of traffic"
I don't do this, but I can understand why they do it, I hope this feedback is taken onboard and they look at how things can be improved to change people's ideas. I cycle on main roads and in traffic, and in general I have very few issues.

" ·not enough cycle lanes"
I am not a fan of cycle lanes, too much them and us can develop from their offering, can lead to false confidence, or can lead a cyclist into a bad situation if not properly designed. However if cycle lanes are well designed, can help to give a warm feeling, increase someones confidence, and get them down the shop on a bike rather than taking the car, that can only be a good thing, but I wouldn't want to see too much segregation as they do not tackle the real problem of inconsiderate and selfish drivers, be they a minority.

"Overall a good day and one that we may repeat on a quarterly basis at different locations."
I really hope they repeat these, randomly, and in different locations, hitting the same area at the same time would not be as effective.

 

[Alun]

" ·a number wore headphones"
I don't do this, but it is no different to having the radio on in the car...

I think that it is very different, when I drive my car I have three mirrors to check what is behind me, and I am not overtaken very much in normal traffic. When I am on my bike, I don't have any mirrors and am overtaken by cars frequently, I rely to a degree on my hearing to tell me what is behind and about to overtake. Matter of choice though!

 

[matthat]

" ·static display vehicle on Church Street , L1 - engagement with passing cyclists and general public on cycle and pedestrian issues"
Without seeing the display vehicle or the street it was based on it is hard to say how effective it would have been, but at least they are out with a display and making an effort.

"7 fixed penalties/prosecutions for various offences inc. failing to comply with advanced stop lines at junctions and cycle lane obstruction."
Good to read that ASL and cycle lane obstruction is on the radar.

"·Approx. 300 cyclists were spoken to overall and provided with cycle maps/ cycle training advice."
Would be good to know what training advice was being given, do you know?
I have seen some PCSO's around on my commute, and the road/cycle craft was not great, not abysmal, but not great.

"Some feedback from cyclists who were stopped included ;
·a large number did not wear helmets"
Really? I have a choice of whether to wear one or not, and I do not make judgements on other cyclists in this regard.
I am not currently wearing a helmet in this weather, but I did during the colder weather. You should be able to cycle in confidence without a helmet as I do. The problem is not the cyclist who is not wearing a helmet, the problem is the minority of other road users not using the road appropriately... it is that inconsiderate minority that need to be cracked down on, not the cyclists not wearing a helmet.

" ·a number wore headphones"
I don't do this, but it is no different to having the radio on in the car...

" ·a number expressed that they primarily ride on pavements thru' fear of traffic"
I don't do this, but I can understand why they do it, I hope this feedback is taken onboard and they look at how things can be improved to change people's ideas. I cycle on main roads and in traffic, and in general I have very few issues.

" ·not enough cycle lanes"
I am not a fan of cycle lanes, too much them and us can develop from their offering, can lead to false confidence, or can lead a cyclist into a bad situation if not properly designed. However if cycle lanes are well designed, can help to give a warm feeling, increase someones confidence, and get them down the shop on a bike rather than taking the car, that can only be a good thing, but I wouldn't want to see too much segregation as they do not tackle the real problem of inconsiderate and selfish drivers, be they a minority.

"Overall a good day and one that we may repeat on a quarterly basis at different locations."
I really hope they repeat these, randomly, and in different locations, hitting the same area at the same time would not be as effective.

I have not been to a meeting recently therefore I have no more information than the e-mail that I have posted. I have posted the e mail just so people can see what the police have done and planning to do! I have no intention of getting involved in any political arguments just before one starts.

 

[ohnovino]

I've though about attending that cycle forum, but reading the old minutes online didn't fill me with confidence. They spent over two years discussing the problem of parked cars blocking the cycle lanes on Woolton Road, before eventually deciding to do absolutely nothing about it.

...complaints from cyclists of other cyclists 'speeding' along the prom - using it as a race track...

That's one of my pet peeves. Kids playing and dogs off leads, yet some muppets treat it as a Strava segment.

 

[sittingbull]

........yet some muppets treat it as a Strava segment.

I believe it is!....and it wasn't me, know what you mean though.

 

[on the road]

I believe it is!....and it wasn't me, know what you mean though.

I tried to flag it, but you can't flag it if you've not ridden it, annoying.

 

[gambatte]

a number wore headphones"
I don't do this, but it is no different to having the radio on in the car...

I think that it is very different, when I drive my car I have three mirrors to check what is behind me, and I am not overtaken very much in normal traffic. When I am on my bike, I don't have any mirrors and am overtaken by cars frequently, I rely to a degree on my hearing to tell me what is behind and about to overtake. Matter of choice though!

I’d sort of agree with frood. It’s no different. Shouldn’t happen in either case though.
I’ve a problem with the concept of all I.C.E. It’s a distraction for the driver. Concentration should be on the road, not on the latest score, the next chorus or what’s happening in Ambridge. I’ve seen drivers refusing to shift from the outside lane of the motorway, despite having blues and two’s up their **se
I’ve had this argument with my dad “All the driving I used to do, that radio kept me alive”. “Well if you were that tired, you should have pulled over, had a walk and a cuppa”
It’s why mp3 players etc are now banned in all UKA sanctioned road races – whether the roads closed or not.
You need to be aware of your environment.

 

[Kookas]

I’d sort of agree with frood. It’s no different. Shouldn’t happen in either case though.
I’ve a problem with the concept of all I.C.E. It’s a distraction for the driver. Concentration should be on the road, not on the latest score, the next chorus or what’s happening in Ambridge. I’ve seen drivers refusing to shift from the outside lane of the motorway, despite having blues and two’s up their **se
I’ve had this argument with my dad “All the driving I used to do, that radio kept me alive”. “Well if you were that tired, you should have pulled over, had a walk and a cuppa”
It’s why mp3 players etc are now banned in all UKA sanctioned road races – whether the roads closed or not.
You need to be aware of your environment.

But some people show better awareness with the radio on than some people without a radio even installed. Some people just don't pay attention, radio or not.

I've seen cyclists without headphones riding like tools, and cyclists with earphones riding respectfully. Before my phone broke, I wore earphones, too. I could still hear a car approaching from behind, and when the situation got demanding I tended to forget about the music altogether. It was great for when I was rolling down the quiet residential streets, and when I wanted to go somewhere new, I could have a satnav speak to me and tell me how.

Earphones are just a scapegoat, really. You're either oblivious to the world or you're not.

 

[PaulBrdmn]

I've though about attending that cycle forum, but reading the old minutes online didn't fill me with confidence. They spent over two years discussing the problem of parked cars blocking the cycle lanes on Woolton Road, before eventually deciding to do absolutely nothing about it.

My favourite bit of Woolton Road is the part by the shops just before Queens Drive junction (going towards town) where the council have perfectly marked out the door zone by painting a cycle lane between parking spaces and the traffic lane. I really don't know why anybody would think that was a good idea.

The only place car parking in cycle lanes bothers me too much is on Crown Street; the lanes there are designed so bikes bypass large speed bumps in place to enforce a 20mph limit yet cyclists are forced out of the lanes by cars parking there (usually taxis or police cars, strangely enough). Don't even get me started on motorists who straddle said speed bumps and the cycle lane, crossing a solid white line in the process, to avoid slowing down from the 30mph+ that they do along there!

How do I contact this group? I think I have a few ideas for them!

 

[glenn forger]

Anglical cathedral?

 

[Cycleops]

"

"Some feedback from cyclists who were stopped included ;
·a large number did not wear helmets"
Really? I have a choice of whether to wear one or not, and I do not make judgements on other cyclists in this regard.
I am not currently wearing a helmet in this weather, but I did during the colder weather. You should be able to cycle in confidence without a helmet as I do. The problem is not the cyclist who is not wearing a helmet, the problem is the minority of other road users not using the road appropriately... it is that inconsiderate minority that need to be cracked down on, not the cyclists not wearing a helmet.

This comment is not judgmental, they are simply making an observation.

 

[ufkacbln]

Anglical cathedral?

They also have a spare