Police object to Southwark’s 20 mph speed limit plans - Includes Pedal Cycles!

[Markymark]

That's not the same thing though is it. A law on handguns probably goes into great detail specifying what a handgun is. Doesn't mean there can't be bye laws for knives.

There is no law saying no limits for cyclists, there is simply an absence of any law. Therefore I cannot see any bye-law in conflict with any higher law.

 

[J.Primus]

That's not the same thing though is it. A law on handguns probably goes into great detail specifying what a handgun is. Doesn't mean there can't be bye laws for knives.

There is no law saying no limits for cyclists, there is simply an absence of any law. Therefore I cannot see any bye-law in conflict with any higher law.

Absolutely, parliament could bring in speeding laws for bikes and it wouldn't cut across the RTA. What I'm saying is I don't think local government has the legislative power to introduce new laws on public highways where breaking them would be a criminal offence.

 

[J.Primus]

Also after some further digging the legislation that allows (according to the police but it's shaky at best) cyclists to be fined in the royal parks was not a local govenment bylaw but an interpretation of The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations Act which was introduced by parliament and not local government.
If I could find an official source for Southwark Council saying they are going to this I would say they are talking out of their hat and they don't have the power to do it. That said as I've mentioned before I can't see anything other than the article in the OP suggesting that this is the case.

 

[CopperBrompton]

There is no requirement for a cyclist to have a speedo

There is no requirement for a car to have a speedo either (only that it must be within the permitted accuracy range if fitted). That does not make cars without speedos exempt from speeding laws.

 

[J.Primus]

There is no requirement for a car to have a speedo either (only that it must be within the permitted accuracy range if fitted). That does not make cars without speedos exempt from speeding laws.

Do you have a link for that. I can't see anything suggesting that is the case. A car or a motorbike must have a working speedometer to pass an MOT to be considered roadworthy so I can't see how you could drive a road legal vehicle without one.

The speedo thing is moot anyway as there is no current legislation that applies to bikes on public highways.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

There is no requirement for a car to have a speedo either (only that it must be within the permitted accuracy range if fitted). That does not make cars without speedos exempt from speeding laws.

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 stipulate that (with certain exemptions for age and max speed of vehicle) motor vehicles must be fitted with a speedometer.

GC.

 

[Amanda P]

"Introducing speed limits where traffic speeds are too high places an unrealistic
expectation to enforce on the Metropolitan Police," wrote Catherine Linney of the Met's traffic management unit.

Eh? So what speed limits DO they enforce? I don't notice much of it anywhere else.

"We also object to the implementation of the 20 mph limit where it is not obvious to the motorist through the look and feel of the road that the speed limit is 20 mph."

Hmmm. You'd think the brightly-coloured metal signs with numbers on might be enough. Instead it seems we have to interpret 'look and feel'.

So, you can only have a speed limit in a place where the traffic is already doing that speed anyway, so it's not needed? So why bother with any speed limits at all?

What bizarre logic!

 

[Mile195]

Whether or not they can enforce it on cyclists seems irrelevant. 20 limits are never enforced anyway and everybody knows it. I've lived in London 10 years and only once do I ever recall seeing a proper police speed trap on any road within the M25. I've certainly never seen one in a 20 zone. 20 limits just seem like a bit of a gimmick to me. It's just a cheap way to make it look like your council is doing something about road safety.

It's a shame, because when I first encountered one when I first started driving, they were so rare I though there really must be something worth slowing down for - school, bad road, tight bend etc. Now that councils just shove them anywhere to shut complaining residents up, they've lost any importance that they formally implied.

Additionally I doubt they'll make one iota of difference to road safety. Any near misses I've ever had have been with idiots doing stupid things, but doing them well within the speed limit.

 

[Markymark]

Except if that near miss turned into a collision, the likelihood of serious injury or death is greatly minimised by a lower speed.

Don't blame the councils for putting them everywhere, blame the police for not enforcing them.

 

[gaz]

Which higher law says that no limits can be applied to cyclists?

None to my knowledge, that isn't what I said though.

 

[Markymark]

None to my knowledge, that isn't what I said though.

So which higher law are you refering to?

 

[Mile195]

Except if that near miss turned into a collision, the likelihood of serious injury or death is greatly minimised by a lower speed.

Don't blame the councils for putting them everywhere, blame the police for not enforcing them.

Maybe, but the people doing stupid things don't tend to care too much about speed limits either. But if people are moving faster then it'll at least get them home and off the road quicker. Having half the people dawdling around at 20, means the other half will be attempting dangerous overtaking maneuvers to get past them.

 

[Markymark]

Maybe, but the people doing stupid things don't tend to care too much about speed limits either. But if people are moving faster then it'll at least get them home and off the road quicker. Having half the people dawdling around at 20, means the other half will be attempting dangerous overtaking maneuvers to get past them.

Make it properly enforced and it will stop all of the above.

 

[J.Primus]

So which higher law are you refering to?

I've fairly comprehensively answered your questions about why I think councils don't have the authority to set speed limits for bicycles on the other page!

 

[Markymark]

I've fairly comprehensively answered your questions about why I think councils don't have the authority to set speed limits for bicycles on the other page!

Sorry but no. There's legislation re laws for motorised vehicles. That simply does not then follow that bye-laws cannot be brought in for non motorised vehicles.
As I also 'comprehensively answered' on the previous page there are laws banning hand guns that go into great detail what a gun it. Doesn't mean there can't be bye-laws banning knives too.