Police object to Southwark’s 20 mph speed limit plans - Includes Pedal Cycles!

[CopperBrompton]

Agreed. I posted the Regs because I read your previous post
as suggesting that cars generally don't need speedos fitted.

My point was some cars do, some don't, and all are subject to speed limits, so the argument that bikes don't have to have speedos and so should be exempt from speed limits is a poor one.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

Ignorance has never been a viable excuse in the eyes of the law.

 

[gaz]

So which higher law are you refering to?

Road traffic regulation act 1984 section 81 states
"It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour."
A restricted road is described in section 82
"in England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart"

Might I suggest you read my original comment again. I'm stating nothing as fact but in fact questioning if council bylaws would overpower this?

 

[CopperBrompton]

I assume they can, as the 20mph limit in Richmond Park applies to bicycles too.

 

[J.Primus]

That's because of a law passed by parliament (The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations Act) not a council bylaw. I've already gone through it once on page 3.

 

[mick1836]

I find it hard NOT to exceed the national speed limit (70) when I pedal down the M6.

 

[Dan B]

I find it hard NOT to exceed the national speed limit (70) when I peddle down the M6.

I bet you don't have a street trading permit either

 

[benborp]

The law in some areas does treat cyclists differently to motorists. While it might seem that 'cyclists can get away with it' because the limits and constraints that apply to vehicle operators don't apply to them, the truth is that there is legislation that deals with cyclists' speed, behaviour, sobriety and road worthiness, it's just that the criteria on which cyclists are judged is subjective and allows policing and justice to be carried out in a proportionate manner. Sometimes.

 

[PK99]

The law in some areas does treat cyclists differently to motorists. While it might seem that 'cyclists can get away with it' because the limits and constraints that apply to vehicle operators don't apply to them, the truth is that there is legislation that deals with cyclists' speed, behaviour, sobriety and road worthiness, it's just that the criteria on which cyclists are judged is subjective and allows policing and justice to be carried out in a proportionate manner. Sometimes.

The reason why the speed limits apply to cars and not bikes, is that is was inconceivable, when the laws were originally drafted, that cyclists could exceed the speed limits. The point was therefore moot, i very much doubt there was a concious decision, based on the kinetic energy difference, to excuse bikes from the limit. As more and more areas get 20mph limits the point becomes no longer moot as cycles will sometimes be the fastest vehicles and present a significant hazard to more vulnerable road users - it makes little difference to a small child whether they are hit by a bike at 25 miles an hour or a car at 25 miles an hour.

 

[benborp]

There have been numerous iterations of The Road Traffic Act and these in turn have been updated. At the time of the Motor Car Act of 1903 the menace on the roads was most definitely perceived to be cads on pedal cycles. The legislation has most definitely not been accidentally drafted to consistently recognise the differences inherent in different forms of transport.
And I'm afraid knowing the difference between striking a child with a car or a cycle at 25mph makes me feel physically sick.

 

[Tim Hall]

I assume they can, as the 20mph limit in Richmond Park applies to bicycles too.

Not any more, AIUI. The latest bylaw switched back to "mechanically proplled vehicles". I can't find a reference right now. @User is the man to ask.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Really? Damn - I really wanted a speeding ticket for my bicycle to frame and hang in the bathroom.

 

[MrWill]

Can cyclists speed be measure by the speed guns and set cameras off?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The reason why the speed limits apply to cars and not bikes, is that is was inconceivable, when the laws were originally drafted, that cyclists could exceed the speed limits. The point was therefore moot, i very much doubt there was a concious decision, based on the kinetic energy difference, to excuse bikes from the limit. As more and more areas get 20mph limits the point becomes no longer moot as cycles will sometimes be the fastest vehicles and present a significant hazard to more vulnerable road users - it makes little difference to a small child whether they are hit by a bike at 25 miles an hour or a car at 25 miles an hour.

Shoemakers. The blanket "street lights = 30mph" limit was introduced in 1930 at which point cyclists had been capable of exceeding 30 mph for decades.

Car vs Bike vs Child?

The vehicle would make a tremendous difference to the child's well being

Me in a Fiat 500 at 25mph = 66550 joules of KE
Me on a bike at 25mph = 7260 joules of KE

Nearly 10 times as much KE would be transferred to them if hit by a small car rather than the bike. The laws of physics are merciless and KE makes a harsh mistress.

 

[J.Primus]

Shoemakers. The blanket "street lights = 30mph" limit was introduced in 1930 at which point cyclists had been capable of exceeding 30 mph for decades.

Car vs Bike vs Child?

The vehicle would make a tremendous difference to the child's well being

Me in a Fiat 500 at 25mph = 66550 joules of KE
Me on a bike at 25mph = 7260 joules of KE

Nearly 10 times as much KE would be transferred to them if hit by a small car rather than the bike. The laws of physics are merciless and KE makes a harsh mistress.

Very true. For a comparison I play rugby and the difference between hitting a 12st guy and an 18st guy is absolutely massive. One you can barely notice and the other can knock the wind out of you massively. That's only a 50% increase in mass but the difference is huge.
Now compare that with the 900% mark up from bike to car and how anyone could imagine that it wouldn't make any difference is mad. My maths isn't fantastic but wouldn't a bike need to be going at motorway speeds to have the same effect as a car at 25mph