Police object to Southwark’s 20 mph speed limit plans - Includes Pedal Cycles!

[Origamist]

I don't think they do - it would need new legislation AFAIK.

Mmm, looking at this, possibly not:

"The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 allows for speed limits to be imposed by local acts, but has never been used to impose speed limits on cyclists."

Perhaps Southwark will be the first to try?

 

[sidevalve]

There is no requirement for a cyclist to have a speedo, and no documentation to show that it is calibrated correctly. Hence cyclists can't know what speed they are doing. Whether or not that is a valid excuse for going faster than the limit is a different matter. The council could presumably easily bylaw the speed restriction to include all vehicles.

Yet. The problem of fitting a speedo to a bike only really applied when they were large heavy mechanical things - with the advent of electronics the whole ball park has moved. Besides is it really so much to ask anyway that cyclists [who are among the loudest in calling for speed limits] should at least try to obay them ? Just because they can "get away with it" too many riders consider themselves outside ANY road laws. Sorry but sooner or later that will change and we will all suffer.

 

[Markymark]

Yet. The problem of fitting a speedo to a bike only really applied when they were large heavy mechanical things - with the advent of electronics the whole ball park has moved. Besides is it really so much to ask anyway that cyclists [who are among the loudest in calling for speed limits] should at least try to obay them ? Just because they can "get away with it" too many riders consider themselves outside ANY road laws. Sorry but sooner or later that will change and we will all suffer.

Maybe because the danger posed from cyclists doing >20mph is significantly less than the danger posed by cars?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Are these the usual Gatso devices? If so, how do they identify the speeding cyclist?

As law abiding folk we surrender ourselves to the nearest police officer, once we've caught up with him.

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

What? This country has laws against speeding? And someone enforces them? That's unbelievable!

 

[Maylian]

Yet. The problem of fitting a speedo to a bike only really applied when they were large heavy mechanical things - with the advent of electronics the whole ball park has moved. Besides is it really so much to ask anyway that cyclists [who are among the loudest in calling for speed limits] should at least try to obay them ? Just because they can "get away with it" too many riders consider themselves outside ANY road laws. Sorry but sooner or later that will change and we will all suffer.

Is it actually getting away with it, when the laws don't normally apply to cyclists in terms of speed limits? Royal parks etc. excluded.

 

[Markymark]

But he wouldn't have got a fine (or at keast one that he could easily appeal) because the calibration lines would show he wasn't speeding (unless he didn't slow enough and actually was speeding)

 

[Origamist]

It won't be. Speed limits have been imposed under various local measures over the years, including in Royal Parks and along certain parts of the Thames Path. They tended not to be enforced as there was no reliable way of determining the cyclists' speeds and speed cameras and speed guns at the time had not been approved for evidencing speeds below 30 mph. Most of the speed restrictions on cycles have been rescinded.

However, a number of speed guns have now been approved for evidencing speeds of 20 mph+, which may be why Southwark are thinking of introducing a limit. Southwark has something of a schizophrenic relationship with cyclists - on one hand it claims to encourage and with the other it seems to do everything it can to make life difficult (e.g. the proposed ban on cycling on the Thames Path they mooted a few years ago). Hopefully Jenny Jones will get this plan kicked into the long grass, the same as she has done with their other stupid ideas...

Thanks. Like you, I think it highly unlikely, but am I right in thinking speed limits for cyclists on Southwark's 20mph limit roads are a possibility (even if they could not be enforced via the RTRA)? I'd always assumed it would need a change in primary legislation (unlike special regs in Royal Parks etc).

 

[MisterStan]

We put our names on our backs.

There do seem to be an awful lot of cyclists named 'Castelli and DHB'

 

[w00hoo_kent]

Is it actually getting away with it, when the laws don't normally apply to cyclists in terms of speed limits? Royal parks etc. excluded.

I think it's fair to presume that the poster was referring to all manner of laws cyclists might break, not just a speed one.

 

[gaz]

There is no requirement for a cyclist to have a speedo, and no documentation to show that it is calibrated correctly. Hence cyclists can't know what speed they are doing. Whether or not that is a valid excuse for going faster than the limit is a different matter. The council could presumably easily bylaw the speed restriction to include all vehicles.

Can they bylaw something which already has a 'higher' law starting otherwise?

 

[Markymark]

Can they bylaw something which already has a 'higher' law starting otherwise?

Which higher law says that no limits can be applied to cyclists?

 

[J.Primus]

Which higher law says that no limits can be applied to cyclists?

The road traffic act

 

[Markymark]

I didn't now there was a bit that specifically says that speeding laws cannot be applied to cyclists, I just thought they were excluded which is different?

 

[J.Primus]

It specifically says who it does apply to. As in it states its a law that only applies to motorised vehicles. It doesn't need to state who it doesn't apply to as it's a given that if you're not a motorised vehicle then you're not affected by it.
I know they can do bylaws for parks and other 'non standard' roads but I'm really not sure they can for normal highways.
Also I've been on Southwark councils website and there isn't a mention of the 20mph limit applying to bicycles anywhere. The only reference I can see if the one in the article in the OP.
If anyone else can find Southwark council saying this in an official capacity on their website please link it as I can't see it anywhere.
Again I'd be very surprised if it's actually within their power to do so.