Portsmouth Rd cycle lane

[Simontm]

aside from being a munumental f up imho, with the weather turning I emailed cycle Kingston about clearing and gritting this winter.
They replied:
"We have spoken with the Street Scene people who advise that they are
currently in the process of finalising the gritting routes and these will
be on the website along with the Winter Service Plan in the coming days. I
will let you know when we are advised it is available."
Not using it at the moment as it's covered in grit and stones as it hasn't been sweated. Guess I will have to find another route at 7am and -1

 

[mjr]

No highway authorities currently grit cycle tracks. Cambridge have sometimes but reportedly there's been a sequence of screwups so not even there. Few grit cycle lanes either.

Official advice is usually that people should cycle on the main carriageway lanes of gritted routes instead, but they don't tell motorists that loudly enough IMO.

 

[Simontm]

No highway authorities currently grit cycle tracks. Cambridge have sometimes but reportedly there's been a sequence of screwups so not even there. Few grit cycle lanes either.

Official advice is usually that people should cycle on the main carriageway lanes of gritted routes instead, but they don't tell motorists that loudly enough IMO.

I agree and the problem is that they've turned the Portsmouth Road into a two-Way road for cars with no passing points so cars are stuck behind pulled in buses and behind any cyclist in that stretch of road where previously they could have overtake. With the dual-way cycle path, drivers expect cyclists to be on that path.

 

[Twizit]

aside from being a munumental f up imho....

Can't disagree with you on that point. Despite their failings I am in favour of the central London segregated lanes, but just can't see the need for the Kingston one. Way too many things wrong with it, and IMHO the road as it was before was perfectly safe to cycle along, it being a decent width.

On the other hand, I did cycle home that way last night along the newly resurfaced road (the bit "for" cars...). Now that was lovely .... until I got past the Brighton Road turning and back onto unmodified road stretch (I believe) maintained by Surrey CC... which is like cycling across a ploughed field

 

[dim]

I wish that they would clean up the cycle path on the guided bus route between Milton road Cambridge and St Ives

it's full of horse shite ..... they should ban all horses from this path

 

[Simontm]

Can't disagree with you on that point. Despite their failings I am in favour of the central London segregated lanes, but just can't see the need for the Kingston one. Way too many things wrong with it, and IMHO the road as it was before was perfectly safe to cycle along, it being a decent width.

On the other hand, I did cycle home that way last night along the newly resurfaced road (the bit "for" cars...). Now that was lovely .... until I got past the Brighton Road turning and back onto unmodified road stretch (I believe) maintained by Surrey CC... which is like cycling across a ploughed field

I've got so sick to death of that stretch from Brighton Rd to City Arms that I now go via Maple Rd and Balaclava Rd

 

[mjr]

I agree and the problem is that they've turned the Portsmouth Road into a two-Way road for cars with no passing points so cars are stuck behind pulled in buses and behind any cyclist in that stretch of road where previously they could have overtake. With the dual-way cycle path, drivers expect cyclists to be on that path.

It's not like the previous layout had handlebar-width gutter lanes that drivers expected cyclists to be on... oh wait(!) While I'd agree that the current situation still isn't quite right (especially the rather narrow lead-in no-footway section), please don't romanticise the previous screwup.

Winter maintenance is a pre-existing problem. Even where cycle routes are on-road, they're often not cleared or gritted unless motorists want it.

 

[PK99]

I wish that they would clean up the cycle path on the guided bus route between Milton road Cambridge and St Ives

it's full of horse shite ..... they should ban all horses from this path

horses were on the road before bikes!

 

[Simontm]

Where did I romanticise the previous system? All I said was the latest scheme is a monumental f up and that with the previous 'scheme' cars could overtake so would not be behind a cyclist getting more irate and prone to stupid decisions.
The reason I asked the council about gritting and clearing was that this million pound f up will cause more abuse to cyclists if they don't use it because it's too dangerous. As it is, the stones from the roadworks makes it riskier enough of a fall (unless they've actually swept it in the past day?)

 

[mjr]

I wish that they would clean up the cycle path on the guided bus route between Milton road Cambridge and St Ives

Wishes ain't horses. Report it. It's probably one of the few times you can legitimately send a council pictures of steaming dung heaps! www.FixMyStreet.com

Where did I romanticise the previous system? All I said was the latest scheme is a monumental f up and that with the previous 'scheme' cars could overtake so would not be behind a cyclist getting more irate and prone to stupid decisions.

On some sections, the only way they could do that was by squeezing the cyclist to the kerb. Most cyclists I saw on there rode in the gutter, probably a combination of the narrow gutter lane markings and motorists expecting to be able to overtake.

The reason I asked the council about gritting and clearing was that this million pound f up will cause more abuse to cyclists if they don't use it because it's too dangerous.

Yebbut that's not a new problem. That's been happening every winter (at least since the early 1990s) when I've had to switch from cycle routes on back roads to the gritted major roads (no cycle tracks between home and school back then), so it probably won't be more abuse, except if more cyclists continue to ride through the freeze. I'd agree that it would be very good if some councils took a leaf out of Copenhagen's book, though:

View: https://vimeo.com/17954162

 

[Simontm]

On some sections, the only way they could do that was by squeezing the cyclist to the kerb. Most cyclists I saw on there rode in the gutter, probably a combination of the narrow gutter lane markings and motorists expecting to be able to overtake.


Yebbut that's not a new problem. That's been happening every winter (at least since the early 1990s) when I've had to switch from cycle routes on back roads to the gritted major roads (no cycle tracks between home and school back then), so it probably won't be more abuse, except if more cyclists continue to ride through the freeze. I'd agree that it would be very good if some councils took a leaf out of Copenhagen's book, though:

View: https://vimeo.com/17954162

Trying to think back. Aside from the still there Surrey CC section the only narrowing were the lights at the TA and the Spanish church?
I always straddled the lane going into Kingston. The way out was a bit more dicey with the side roads so I guess that's an improvement from that perspective.
The reason I think there will be more abuse is that drivers look at all the hassle this lane has caused and if even one cyclist is on the road, they'll get angry. I live in Thames Ditton and the two exchanges that always happen are about 'that cycle lane' and the Kingston Wheelers weekend ride!

 

[mjr]

Trying to think back. Aside from the still there Surrey CC section the only narrowing were the lights at the TA and the Spanish church?

A couple more crossings too? I'd have to check Street View as I didn't ride it many times and haven't for some time.

I always straddled the lane going into Kingston.

Well done you. Almost no-one else I saw did and the abuse I got was not nice. I agree it's definitely an improvement on the side with more side roads, but I think it's also an improvement not to be directed into the gutter on the way in.

The reason I think there will be more abuse is that drivers look at all the hassle this lane has caused and if even one cyclist is on the road, they'll get angry. I live in Thames Ditton and the two exchanges that always happen are about 'that cycle lane' and the Kingston Wheelers weekend ride!

At least "it's not gritted" is a fairly succinct and easy-to-understand reason for cyclists not using it, but really, motorists need to get over ourselves and accept that only motorways exclude other types of road users. Cycle tracks are extra protected space because we motorists have demonstrated that our kind generally cannot be trusted to share nicely. I hope you're making that sort of point if those exchanges are in conversation (not shouting matches) because we need more than double the proportion of people cycling if we're ever going to be the majority or near enough.

 

[Simontm]

.

At least "it's not gritted" is a fairly succinct and easy-to-understand reason for cyclists not using it, but really, motorists need to get over ourselves and accept that only motorways exclude other types of road users. Cycle tracks are extra protected space because we motorists have demonstrated that our kind generally cannot be trusted to share nicely. I hope you're making that sort of point if those exchanges are in conversation (not shouting matches) because we need more than double the proportion of people cycling if we're ever going to be the majority or near enough.

I agree but considering we're losing our bus services completely in the New Year there will be an increase to the already car-dominated area and a lot of drivers are not rational. I am holding up traffic as I run through red lights, knock over grannies and sacrifice every first born as far as many are concerned. It doesn't matter why I may have to be on the road to them, it's enough that I am. hell you should hear how the volume rises when Ride London comes around!

 

[Twizit]

I agree but considering we're losing our bus services completely in the New Year there will be an increase to the already car-dominated area and a lot of drivers are not rational. I am holding up traffic as I run through red lights, knock over grannies and sacrifice every first born as far as many are concerned. It doesn't matter why I may have to be on the road to them, it's enough that I am. hell you should hear how the volume rises when Ride London comes around!

All of this. I'm close by in Hinchley Wood and the amount of local abuse for cyclists gets so wearing after a while. Don't even mention the Surrey Hills on a weekend - one of the reasons I cycle v early to avoid traffic, large cycling pelotons (which is great to see but doesn't half wind up motorists) and the inevitable conflict that arises.

 

[mjr]

Sounds like things have gotten much worse since I last rode there, but I humbly suggest this is a wider problem than winter maintenance or a few cycle tracks. There's a heck of a lot of PR needing to be done, but I doubt government will do it and possibly it lacks the skill or ability to. Still keep pushing them, but reject/rebut the abuse too where possible.

Any road up, let us know if there's a miracle and they do include the new cycle tracks in their Winter Service. Heck, even let us know their tortured excuse for not including them - it might be one we've not read before! Norfolk's excuse is "Following discussions with Norwich Forum, it has been established that cyclists who tend to use off road cycleways are likely to use gritted roads" - firstly, I'm not sure who Norwich Forum are and secondly, that disenfranchises the majority of residents, who aren't in that city.