Primary position advertisement

[Crackle]

It's still not you at fault though. That was clear bad driving, the only thing you can do is learn to anticipate it and as you say that was a valuable lesson - good footage too.

 

[domtyler]

It's still not you at fault though. That was clear bad driving, the only thing you can do is learn to anticipate it and as you say that was a valuable lesson - good footage too.

He was only not at fault 'technically' or legally. But as cntl could have prevented the behaviour through his own actions there must surely be some type of blame or fault? In much the same way that someone going up the inside of a large left turning lorry is not technically at fault when it turns left without properly looking and crushes the cyclist to death.

 

[Crackle]

He was only not at fault 'technically' or legally. But as cntl could have prevented the behaviour through his own actions there must surely be some type of blame or fault? In much the same way that someone going up the inside of a large left turning lorry is not technically at fault when it turns left without properly looking and crushes the cyclist to death.

Yeah I take your point but I would describe it rather as having a responsibility, in this case to himself and indeed to other road users as predictable and deliberate movements aid everyone.

It's like rear end smashes: If someone hits you from behind it's their fault but if they hit you because you took off from a spot like a bat out of hell without looking properly and then had to jam on hard because you see something coming then you may have escaped 'fault' but you are strongly responsible for it happening. Well you are in my book anyway.

 

[bonj2]

The way I see it, taking primary position is a sensible precautionary measure, but one which shouldn't be necessary, and therefore a cyclist shouldn't be able to be 'blamed' for not taking it. How's it going to sound in court - "yes, your honour, I am aware my client's overtake put the cylist in danger, but if his imminent overtake is going to put a cyclist in danger, he would require the cyclist to prevent him from doing so."

 

[bonj2]

He was only not at fault 'technically' or legally. But as cntl could have prevented the behaviour through his own actions there must surely be some type of blame or fault? In much the same way that someone going up the inside of a large left turning lorry is not technically at fault when it turns left without properly looking and crushes the cyclist to death.

there's a slight difference, in that undertaking is an actual offensive manouvre, while not taking primary just isn't a defensive one.

 

[Terminator]

Im not changing my riding just to please people on this forum.I haven't been cycle commuting for five minutes i've been cycle commuting for 27 years.

If I had cause for concern with regular incidents then yes I would but I dont so nitto.

With the regular posters who seem to regularly post 'incidents' not being me apart from a collision in Feb 2006 and The mini rounderbout incident (where I fell off doing it correctly like a good little cyclist) then there you have it.

Ok fair enough perhaps people who post regular incidents are unlucky and I would not wish this sort of stuff.I've been there.I do actually think in all the years i've been cycling my record is very good.(Touchwood) although Domtyler will probably say 2 ped collisions 15 years apart is appaling.He did last time.

I blocked a boy racer at Mile End the other day and I was as worried as hell.I'd rather fly onto the pavement then go through that again.My bike isn't fitted with a device to tell me how much they had been drinking...(or smoking) (Not yet)

Last time I changed the way I ride I fell off due to so called advice.

 

[Cab]

Im not changing my riding just to please people on this forum.I haven't been cycle commuting for five minutes i've been cycle commuting for 27 years.

If I had cause for concern with regular incidents then yes I would but I dont so nitto.

Good for you.

How close are you comfortable with? I mean, lets say you're cycling along a road, and cars are coming past you. Whats the minimum distance between your right elbow and the cars that you're comfortable with?

With the regular posters who seem to regularly post 'incidents' not being me apart from a collision in Feb 2006 and The mini rounderbout incident (where I fell off doing it correctly like a good little cyclist) then there you have it.

Ok fair enough perhaps people who post regular incidents are unlucky and I would not wish this sort of stuff.I've been there.I do actually think in all the years i've been cycling my record is very good.(Touchwood) although Domtyler will probably say 2 ped collisions 15 years apart is appaling.He did last time.

It all depends on what you mean by 'incident'. Most of what I complain of here is other cyclists, occasionally motorists getting shirty with me because I've taken the correct road position, but you'll rarely see me complaining about close overtaking because such a thing rarely happens. And it rarely happens because, for the most part, I ride in primary position wherever appropriate. If motorists frequently overtook me too closely I'd complain about that, which is why I've now asked you how close you're happy with.

I blocked a boy racer at Mile End the other day and I was as worried as hell.I'd rather fly onto the pavement then go through that again.My bike isn't fitted with a device to tell me how much they had been drinking...(or smoking) (Not yet)

Last time I changed the way I ride I fell off due to so called advice.

Try riding in primary. You muse be curious as to why so many expert sources (such as, say, Cyclecraft, Effective Cycling, etc.) advise that the right way to cycle is to use Primary where appropriate (or the similar premis, 'vehicular cycling)? You must surely wonder why so many otherwise sensible people are suggesting to you that primary is the way to go?

 

[magnatom]

Terminator,

I do have incidents. Part of the reason is that there are not many cyclists here in Glasgow so drivers don't know how to behave around us.

What I should point out though, and this is the most important point I can make, is that in all of my incidents I have had a get out clause, an escape route. I had this because of my road position. I haven't had to use it yet, so I suppose that if I rode closer to the curb I would have been fine, up until now. But it only takes one incident where I need that escape route to save my life. It hasn't happened yet, but I wouldn't bet with my life by cycling any other way.

No-one here is telling anyone else how to cycle (ok maybe cab is ). We are providing advice based on our experiences. Take it or leave it, but thankfully a lot of people take it....

 

[tdr1nka]

Just watched the clip, that's pretty Fuggin scarey!
Seriously, I'm with Cab on this one(gasp!)I'd advocate primary position for that road situation, signal really early, make 'em pull back and take the road from under them.

Takeing and holding primary position can require a massive amount of 'cojones' from the average cyclist and some drivers consider will consider you to be 'baiting them' in some way.
Depending on speed and traffic ahead, I pull back over when I get a safe chance to let the traffic pass and always acknowledge or thank the driver that has had to sit behind me.

I use mirrors too, was it not possible to see the speed of the aproaching truck? That would have told me a lot about their intention on approaching the bridge.

T x

 

[Cab]

No-one here is telling anyone else how to cycle (ok maybe cab is ).

I'm telling people how they should cycle, not how they must.

 

[Tynan]

I'm telling people how they should cycle, not how they must.

 

[tdr1nka]

I'm telling people how they should cycle, not how they must.

That really ought to have been 'might' instead of 'should', it is still every cyclists right to be squished if they want .

Looking at that vid clip again I am very surprised that the rider in question hadn't taken primary or even slowed, just a little, to let the truck go as it had already been seen in the mirror. The truck driver is quite obviously a Twunk no messing there.

I too will abandon all faith in road law, on occasion, in order not to get squished. When it comes to road riding I won't pitch bloody mindedness against bloody mindedness. 12 stone of flesh against a ton of truck are odds that don't need thinking about.


T x

 

[Terminator]

Good for you.

How close are you comfortable with? I mean, lets say you're cycling along a road, and cars are coming past you. Whats the minimum distance between your right elbow and the cars that you're comfortable with?



It all depends on what you mean by 'incident'. Most of what I complain of here is other cyclists, occasionally motorists getting shirty with me because I've taken the correct road position, but you'll rarely see me complaining about close overtaking because such a thing rarely happens. And it rarely happens because, for the most part, I ride in primary position wherever appropriate. If motorists frequently overtook me too closely I'd complain about that, which is why I've now asked you how close you're happy with.



Try riding in primary. You muse be curious as to why so many expert sources (such as, say, Cyclecraft, Effective Cycling, etc.) advise that the right way to cycle is to use Primary where appropriate (or the similar premis, 'vehicular cycling)? You must surely wonder why so many otherwise sensible people are suggesting to you that primary is the way to go?

I have edited the post because I should not have posted when I was so annoyed.It was a bit too strong.Im sure many of you are good cyclists and are worth listening to and you comments have been taken on board.

I shouldn't post when im so wound up and wont in future.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Throwing your rattle out of your pram there, Terminator. Perhaps you wouldn't need two 6v motorcycle horns on your bike if you rode in primary?

 

[Cab]

That really ought to have been 'might' instead of 'should', it is still every cyclists right to be squished if they want .

It ain't really though. The more cyclists pick the wrong position (and, lets face it, its the majority already!), the more that we're all expected to cycle in the wrong position. Its for their own safety and ours that they should cycle, for the most part, in primary position.