Proposed changes to e-bike regulations

[figbat]

My first thought - and one Cycling UK mention - is the definition and legalisation of e-scooters. Whilst these may not have health benefits, they cut down on vehicular congestion and it is easier and likely more attractive to the casual user to store and use a scooter than a bicycle, which is heavy and takes up a lot of space making it difficult to live with in many houses, flats or other dwellings.

Many people don't want to cycle, they just want to get places easily. The car is one way of doing that but for many journeys an e-scooter would also serve that convenient, easy, door-to-door journey.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

My first thought - and one Cycling UK mention - is the definition and legalisation of e-scooters. Whilst these may not have health benefits, they cut down on vehicular congestion and it is easier and likely more attractive to the casual user to store and use a scooter than a bicycle, which is heavy and takes up a lot of space making it difficult to live with in many houses, flats or other dwellings.

Many people don't want to cycle, they just want to get places easily. The car is one way of doing that but for many journeys an e-scooter would also serve that convenient, easy, door-to-door journey.

E-scooters are clearly not as good for you as walking or cycling
or even using an ebike - assuming it is a currently legal one where you will be pedalling for at least some of the time

Probably similar to an electric bike with a full function throttle if the rider only uses the throttle

but in any case I would imagine that having to stand up and balance is using more energy and getting more fresh air and general stimulation - and so is better for the rider than driving a car
Just my opinion - but it makes sense to me

and it the scooter can fold down then it is very easy to store and takes up little space on a train or even maybe a bus
(do e-scooters fold down?? - I dunno - never used one - but I have a very old manual one that folds flat and takes up very little space)

 

[Drago]

My first thought - and one Cycling UK mention - is the definition and legalisation of e-scooters. Whilst these may not have health benefits, they cut down on vehicular congestion and it is easier and likely more attractive to the casual user to store and use a scooter than a bicycle, which is heavy and takes up a lot of space making it difficult to live with in many houses, flats or other dwellings.

Many people don't want to cycle, they just want to get places easily. The car is one way of doing that but for many journeys an e-scooter would also serve that convenient, easy, door-to-door journey.

I would respectfully disagree.

For what I've seen e scooters are not getting people out of cars. For the most part it would appear to be those that would otherwise walk or get the bus are (mis)using them.

As far as UK users go e scooters are not enabling micro mobility. They're perpetuating motor vehicle use and lazy behaviour.

 

[classic33]

E-scooters are clearly not as good for you as walking or cycling
or even using an ebike - assuming it is a currently legal one where you will be pedalling for at least some of the time

Probably similar to an electric bike with a full function throttle if the rider only uses the throttle

but in any case I would imagine that having to stand up and balance is using more energy and getting more fresh air and general stimulation - and so is better for the rider than driving a car
Just my opinion - but it makes sense to me

and it the scooter can fold down then it is very easy to store and takes up little space on a train or even maybe a bus
(do e-scooters fold down?? - I dunno - never used one - but I have a very old manual one that folds flat and takes up very little space)

E-scooters have been banned from from buses and trains.

 

[ianrauk]

I've noticed in London that scooter use has declined from a couple of years back.

 

[CXRAndy]

It is also likely to make them more expensive due to development costs for a small market.

It's the fastest growing market in cycling. The difference in Wattage from 250W to 500W is hardly anything regarding hardware and a little software tweaking.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Another point about increased power

Our folder clearly has a different weight balance than my normal ebike which is more of a hybrid

as a result I have to be careful with it - especially with the power assist active - that the bike does not try to do a wheelie away from traffic lights

which does not work well on a folder with small wheels and full mudguards!!!

add more power and it would be uncontrollable if you were not careful

so the design of the bike is important - and at the cheaper end there may be a problem

 

[steveindenmark]

I had a throttle version here in Denmark. By using the throttle it eats the battery power at an alarming rate.

 

[rogerzilla]

Maybe that's one reason Brompton went for front-wheel drive. Bromptons are prone enough to wheelies already. I do wonder if they struggle to grip on greasy climbs, though.

 

[bonzobanana]

I had a throttle version here in Denmark. By using the throttle it eats the battery power at an alarming rate.

You could just not turn it quite as much and not as often. Throttles give full control so you can use it as much or as little as you like. In contrast cadence sensor ebikes typically constantly provide power even when you don't need it, some simpler ebikes even go to full power immediately that they sense the pedals are turning. Surely that system has to be the most wasteful of power.

 

[bonzobanana]

Maybe that's one reason Brompton went for front-wheel drive. Bromptons are prone enough to wheelies already. I do wonder if they struggle to grip on greasy climbs, though.

It's possible but the motor's are low power so shouldn't really be a problem. It's a bit like a BMW where the rear wheels are driven where there is less weight, yes they don't grip as well as a front wheel drive car which has the weight of the engine creating better road traction but It's not terrible just slightly inferior. Then you have to factor in with a powered front wheel you are actually two wheel drive with the rear wheel powered by you and the front wheel powered by the motor so on some surfaces it will increase traction as the power is delivered over 2 wheels not 1. So you have the equivalent of a 4x4 on a bicycle. I personally think of front wheel drive as superior as it doesn't affect your rear gearing at all and you can have full length rear spokes for greater comfort plus I'm a heavy rider so I tend to have more punctures on the rear as more of my weight is there so front wheel drive makes more sense. Also if you do have a puncture on a hub wheel its much easier to deal with on the front without both the gearing and electrical cables to deal with. The other benefit is it even's out tyre wear more as well. Lastly as a minor point which is completely down to the rider's preferences I actually like the feel of heavier steering. It moves less and seems more stable to me.

I almost forget if you are going down hill anyway then more of the weight goes to the front and so you can have increased traction on the front compared to the rear anyway which is why downhill mountain bikes often have a larger rotor on the front wheel than the rear as that is when they need maximum braking performance and less brake fade. This is also a great benefit to regen on an ebike as it has greater resistance to turning so you need greater traction at the front.

Just thought of another reason, the simpler hub motor on the front without a freehub means less maintenance and overall there is less weight on the front so the bearings in the motor last longer.

I think overall for a road based ebike front hub motors make a lot of sense.

 

[Gunk]

It's a bit like a BMW where the rear wheels are driven where there is less weight, yes they don't grip as well as a front wheel drive car which has the weight of the engine creating better road traction but It's not terrible just slightly inferior.

Interesting theory, although it is much easier to spin the wheels in a front wheel drive car than a rear wheel drive car. As you pull away the weight naturally transfers to the rear, meaning that the front is unweighted.

 

[rogerzilla]

Interesting theory, although it is much easier to spin the wheels in a front wheel drive car than a rear wheel drive car. As you pull away the weight naturally transfers to the rear, meaning that the front is unweighted.

Most noticeable when exiting a petrol station, where the road is often slick with spilt diesel.

It was said 30 years ago that 150bhp was the practical limit for FWD because of the weight transfer problem causing wheelspin. Traction control has meant this limit no longer applies but you still can't *use* much more than 150bhp when accelerating from low speeds - the TC will dial back the power and/or brake a spinning wheel to compensate for a clumsy right foot. At higher speeds and in higher gears, wheelslip isn't an issue.

 

[gbb]

Has to be said - if they can;t enforce the current regulation - which the can;t - then why change them to something else they can't enforce

Typical non interventionist practice, if you can't police it, up the wattage so you don't have to enforce it.
Basically create a condition where you can wash your hands of it.

Edited to add...
As with e scooters, they knew full well that they wouldn't be able ( or have the will) to police it and any fool could see where this was going to end up, lots of them on the roads and paths. The point...all those scooters ( and now theoretically 500w bikes) create money, sales, taxation ( VAT )...or am I being cynical. Putting money over people's wellbeing and safety

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Typical non interventionist practice, if you can't police it, up the wattage so you don't have to enforce it.
Basically create a condition where you can wash your hands of it.

Edited to add...
As with e scooters, they knew full well that they wouldn't be able ( or have the will) to police it and any fool could see where this was going to end up, lots of them on the roads and paths. The point...all those scooters ( and now theoretically 500w bikes) create money, sales, taxation ( VAT )...or am I being cynical. Putting money over people's wellbeing and safety

Agreed - although quite alot of the electronic bikes around here that are buzzing around at speed seem to be a damn sight more than 500W based on the size of the hub motor!
So they would still be illegal under the proposed regs - which will probably get abandoned anyway I suspect