Rasmussen back in action

[Tim Bennet.]

How do you resolve the fact he was denied victory in the Tour? do you strip Contador of his win? You can financially compensate him for his loss of earnings, but you can never compensate him for being denied the win in the Tour.

Because he wasn't eliminated from the TdF on a sporting rule infraction, he can't use the appeal system within the sport itself. Therefore what (limited?) powers they might have to address his sporting loss will never be known.

His only option is to prove he was wrongfully dismissed from the employ of his team. Then if this is found to be so, he could pursue a civil action and have to accept their powers to recompense him will be limited to a financial award. But this is a fundamental shortcoming of this system for everyone, (except obviously where pure financial loss was incurred). Amputees in industrial accidents would probably choose to have their arm back than a cash pay out.

But pursuing this through the courts would establish his innocence and go some way to allowing him to reestablish his career. The alternative is to appear in minor town centre criteriums where the spectacle is more freak show than sporting contest.

But before we feel sorry for how hard done he has been, let's see some evidence that this is the case.

 

[spen666]

How do you resolve the fact he was denied victory in the Tour? do you strip Contador of his win? You can financially compensate him for his loss of earnings, but you can never compensate him for being denied the win in the Tour.

Because he wasn't eliminated from the TdF on a sporting rule infraction, he can't use the appeal system within the sport itself. Therefore what (limited?) powers they might have to address his sporting loss will never be known.

His only option is to prove he was wrongfully dismissed from the employ of his team. Then if this is found to be so, he could pursue a civil action and have to accept their powers to recompense him will be limited to a financial award. But this is a fundamental shortcoming of this system for everyone, (except obviously where pure financial loss was incurred). Amputees in industrial accidents would probably choose to have their arm back than a cash pay out.

But pursuing this through the courts would establish his innocence and go some way to allowing him to reestablish his career. The alternative is to appear in minor town centre criteriums where the spectacle is more freak show than sporting contest.

But before we feel sorry for how hard done he has been, let's see some evidence that this is the case.

No amount of compensation can replace the fact you were denied victory

 

[spen666]

...But pursuing this through the courts would establish his innocence and go some way to allowing him to reestablish his career. The alternative is to appear in minor town centre criteriums where the spectacle is more freak show than sporting contest.
....

Interesting here he has to prove he is innocent- the burden of proof seems to have changed to guilty until proven innocent

 

[Tim Bennet.]

Not at all. To resolve this he doesn't have to prove his innocence. He only has to prove that his team (employer) were guilty of doing him wrong by either breaching his contract or by having transgressed some aspect of European employment law. (If Europe is indeed where that contract was made - Monaco Licence, Mexico resident, team registered where ?). Everything else is a consequential loss for which they may or may not be liable.

There have been no accusations levelled against him for any sporting rule infraction. (Except perhaps by the Danish Authorities - I'm not sure where that stands at the moment. But although missing 3 dope tests does count as an assumption of guilt unless appealed by proving innocence, it's no different from a driver refusing to give a breath test.)

 

[asterix]

...But pursuing this through the courts would establish his innocence and go some way to allowing him to reestablish his career. The alternative is to appear in minor town centre criteriums where the spectacle is more freak show than sporting contest.
....

Interesting here he has to prove he is innocent- the burden of proof seems to have changed to guilty until proven innocent[/QUOTE]

Is it not a civil issue and subject to whatever conditions are (legally) imposed? If Rasmussen has failed to satisfy such conditions in some respect, what remedy does he have?

If nothing else, he has been instrumental in bringing the Tour de France into yet more disrepute.

 

[Smokin Joe]

It is absolutely impossible to spend a month in Mexico without leaving a massive data trail. Passport, air travel, hotel records, phone records, credit card transactions etc etc.

Within one hour of being challanged about his whereabouts by Rabobank he could have begun producing the evidence which would have cleared him. Nearly one month later he still has not produced a shred of it. Therefore one can only conclude that he was lying and he deliberately avoided the dope testers. It does not need a Sherlock Holmes to come up with a plausible reason for doing that.

 

[Stick on a Giant]

The BBC is saying he is talking to Acqua & Sapone about joining them. How can any team even consider taking him on until everything is cleared up and in the open. How can cycling ever hope to be considered 'clean' when you can get hired with a fairly massive cloud of suspicion hanging over your head?

 

[alecstilleyedye]

or alternately, they know he's about to be vindicated and can get a top draw rider for a song.</devil's advocate>

 

[Tetedelacourse]

or alternately, they know he's about to be vindicated and can get a top draw rider for a song.</devil's advocate>

pfffffffffffffffffffffff

 

[User169]

Surely Rabobank should be able to produce a comprehensive dossier showing his movements when he was in Italy then. Or maybe they cannot, because it is harder to produce than originally thought, or because he was in Mexico. I hope that he is about to be vindicated, then he can sue the arse off of Rabobank for wrongful dismissal and hopefully take a civil suit against the Italian journo who spoke to him!

As discussed though, the one thing he cannot ever be compensated for is having the Tour victory taken from him. Unless they re-run the final stages in November when the calendar is relatively quiet

Wishful thinking I reckon.

I expect that RB do have the necessary evidence, but are unable to reveal the nature of that evidence in view of privacy provisions.

I would be amazed if Rasmussen ever succeeds with a claim against RB. As others have pointed out, it should have taken him about 5 minutes to establish where he was.

If he really was in Mexico when he claimed to be, surely we'd already have seen the stamps in his passport.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Worth pointing out that the "Italian Journo" who saw Rasmussen in Italy is a former professional cyclist who knew him and not some tabloid hack. When Rabobank heard his story they would undoubtably have asked Rasumssen for an explanation and proof of his whereabouts, only sacking him when he failed to offer to provide any. Were Rasmussen innocent he would have been screaming it from the rooftops straight away and his lawyers would have been doing the same.

Guilty as charged and good riddance.

 

[User169]

Fair enough.

I would suggest though that it's more likely that he's unable to provide the necessary evidence rather than being unwilling to.

In any case, as someone on this forum recently put it, when has the faintest whiff of cack not turned out to be a steaming bucket of turd where pro cycling is concerned?

 

[andy_wrx]

As Stick on a Giant says, the BBC are reporting that he's talking to Acqua & Sapone
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6960640.stm

 

[DustBowlRefugee]

I'm obviously going out on a rather lonely and flimsy limb here but........ apart from mising 2 (4) tests, he has not done anything which warrants him being banned/sacked and piloried(sp?) like this.

He was leading the tour, the organisation decided that they would put immense pressure on his team and he was out. Not actually done anything illegal though has he? Despite what that paragon of cycling virtue David Millar says

Personally I hope that he makes a return next year and stuffs everyone, he was robbed of a famous victory, and the cycling world should hang it's head at how he has been treated

Agreed Maggot. He didn't break any rules and has never tested positive.

Perhaps the puritans would like to ban all the other riders who didn't break any rules and never tested positive. Perhaps we could extend this all sports.

I hope he comes back next year and stuffs the lot of them.

 

[niedermeyer]

A nasty piece of work if you believe this http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/news/articles/12851.0.html
and I don't see any reason not to believe it. To use drugs yourself is one thing, to trick a colleague and friend into carrying for you is reprehensible. Any team that signs him will be barred from the GTs, I reckon - the organisers at least seem seroius about getting tough.