Recommendations for lightweight but effective bell

[Sara_H]

petrol fume affected mindset?

I am mightier than you.
I have audibly, and possibly aggressively, advised of my presence.
I am not slowing down.
I am coming through.

I blame the lead myself; it has addled folks' brains.

I wonder if the Op's runner did hear the multiple calls and was just hacked of that they were being shouted at whilst out for a run? Certainly nips my sack when a bike rider gets all shouty to me on a shared path.

I'm not shouty on the shared paths, a gentle dingaling to make people aware of my presence then an "excuse me, do you mind if I come by?" if the path is blocked. I'm a dog walker for approx 90 minutes per day and appreciate that this works both ways. If I know a cyclist wants to go by us I make sure the dog moves over to the side of the path. It's not hard, which is why it makes me a bit cross when folk hog the path!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Yes it is annoying when someone shouts rudely, but the OP just says he called out. I do this too, but I call out a question: 'Is it OK to come past?' followed by a friendly 'Thank you!' as I do pass. Yesterday 20 of us on bikes had to do this again and again on the Cuckoo Trail but no one took offence. People do need to get out of each other's way in order for a shared path to work, but it doesn't have to be bad-tempered.

Is that shared path "get out of each others way" like the shared carriageway "get out of each others way" the car drivers claim locally when cyclists are "slowing them down."?

Calling out five times over a distance of 50 metres.... feels a bit pushy to me. Even if you are calling "May I pass please?" Once is enough. If they don't react then slow right down and deploy a cheery "Good morning" as you creep past.

 

[Archie_tect]

Is that shared path "get out of each others way" like the shared carriageway "get out of each others way" the car drivers claim locally when cyclists are "slowing them down."?

Sadly, all the roads in the UK have been designed by Council Highway engineers and Ministry of Transport road engineers to make highways safer for cars and lorries to drive along them at, or as close as they can get, to national speed limits- that's all engineers care about- so forward visibility on bends and junctions and stopping distances and warning signs are all deployed to maintain speed... so it's hardly surprising that they design in controls to keep obstacles like pedestrians away from the roads for their own safety by designing in pelican crossings and traffic lights to provide drivers with confidence to drive as fast as they can....

Highway engineers have not planned for people on bikes or horses to be part of that system, but neither have they had the money or the incentive to plan suitable alternatives.
.... the result?

Speed obsession on the roads leads to conflict with slower traffic so it's not the drivers at fault necessarily because they have been encouraged to think like that... it's the way the system has evolved in the desire for faster connectivity and the reliance on personal transport over public transport.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Sadly, all the roads in the UK have been designed by Council Highway engineers and Ministry of Transport road engineers to make highways safer for cars and lorries to drive along them at, or as close as they can get, to national speed limits- that's all engineers care about- so forward visibility on bends and junctions and stopping distances and warning signs are all deployed to maintain speed... so it's hardly surprising that they design in controls to keep obstacles like pedestrians away from the roads for their own safety by designing in pelican crossings and traffic lights to provide drivers with confidence to drive as fast as they can....

Highway engineers have not planned for people on bikes or horses to be part of that system, but neither have they had the money or the incentive to plan suitable alternatives.
.... the result?

Speed obsession on the roads leads to conflict with slower traffic so it's not the drivers at fault necessarily because they have been encouraged to think like that... it's the way the system has evolved in the desire for faster connectivity and the reliance on personal transport over public transport.

It seems a compelling argument but I'm inclined to disagree, perhaps I am a little dyspeptic this morning...

It IS the drivers' fault. I am a driver, have been since 1979. The gas pedal has always worked two ways.

The vast majority of roads I ride a bike on were not planned or designed at all. They were just built in the 19th and 20th centuries following routes that had existed for a long time before that. The mid- late-20th superimposition stuff, dropped in the map by engineers and planners with a petrol fetish, is not stuff I care to ride on, though sometimes I can't avoid doing so.

Take the lanes of the Surrey Hills that I rode on Saturday and those lanes just south in Sussex I rode on Sunday. No one designed them. Yet the drivers still drive on them with near zero consideration for others. Exactly what sort of nobber-twunt-driver hurtles along in a Range Rover, tell 'em ' @Tim Hall, at near the NSL whilst making a mobile phone call on a hand held? Or uses their Audi A6 to try to overtake a cyclist in roadworks which reduce the road to a single lane?

What drivers have bought, that causes (some of) them to drive like selfish nobbers is not the dream of safer roads sold them by the DoT but the illusion of "freedom through automobile" pushed by the ad-men.

 

[Archie_tect]

Good point GG, but the relentless drive towards highway 'safety' with every static hazard highlighted well in advance, drivers are encouraged to think that all roads are safe to drive along them at or as close to national speed limits as they can- not all drivers, but certainly the inconsiderate ones.

 

[Trull]

Right then, just to keep expectations in check, I asked the runner to keep left as I was going to pass on his right, I overtook at a speed which was marginally faster than he was running and at a distance which although was not massive, certainly gave him plenty room to flail arms and not be in any danger of hitting against me. If I was any good with GPX files I'm sure I could tell you exactly what speed I slowed to…my Forerunner 205 was recording...

Onyhoo I'm pretty sure my words were: "Hi Mate, passing on your right, please keep left, passing on right" as the last thing. Previously I'd called "Hi there"… no effect.It was slightly drafty (est 40mph windspeed, pretty average for Aberdeen) so I think that he probably was "in the zone" and the wind blocked his hearing from my earlier shouts, and just for the record I don't shout loudly at anyone as this is really annoying.
So, I thought that a bell might alert people politely that there is a slightly faster person coming up behind them to avoid the shock and holy crap moment this chap had.

I'm overwhelmingly nice to (almost) everyone, and don't seek to offend any road users or indeed pavement sharers. So, thread dwellers please bear that in mind.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

No it's not, don't be silly.

So how is it different?

Cos in my lived experience the great majority of people on bikes treat pedestrians (& equestrians) on shared paths almost exactly the same way as drivers treat cyclists on shared roads and come out with the same sort of rhetoric when challenged about it.....

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Maybe I've walked once too often along Brighton promenade, or around the Royal Parks in London!

EDIT: And I am generally APPALLED by the way many people on bikes behave towards non-cycling bridleway users. But that might be a Surrey Hills thing though I've seen just as bad on the South Downs.

 

[MontyVeda]

I love these threads... everyone tripping over themselves to point out how pleasant and polite they are when passing pedestrians... others claiming that shouting 'excuse me' is aggressive and pushy, as is the ding ding of bicycle bell. If people get offended by others making their presence known, be it by voice or bell... then they need to learn some social skills. And for the record... when I'm passing pedestrians on the shared use paths, I call out a very polite "Good morning sir/madam... jolly nice day isn't it?" as well as providing a friendly ting-a-ling from my bell, before doffing my hat, offering them a cup of tea from my Thermos flask and maybe a teacake or scone. I even carry sugar lumps and carrots to give to the horses I pass... anything less is rude and inconsiderate.

 

[jarlrmai]

Shared path interactions are notoriously difficult and it's why I avoid them when I can. And I cycle like a saint when I do have to use them as peoples reactions are totally unpredictable.

People who tut if you use the bell, people who complain if you don't use a bell, people that tut anyway, people that exaggeratedly jump out of the way school kids that intentionally block the path etc etc.

 

[MontyVeda]

That's true. And given that, it's amazing that we don't all crash into each other all the time which is exactly the point I was making. Avoiding each other in situations like this is one of the things human beings are hard-wired (by evolution) to be good at - putting us in tin boxes changes that.

if that was strictly true, the number of RTAs would more closely reflect the number of 'tin boxes' on the roads... i think for the most part, drivers are quite adept at not crashing into one another either.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Bigger bells have a deeper more sonorous ding dong to them which may well catch people's attention better as it not the irritating ping of the thumb flick types bikes tend to come with now, nor an insipid little ting-a-ling little bell, the downside is you do have a hefty chunk of metal to find space for. Or maybe you could try a bulb horn (think old car or Harpo Marx), it'd catch attention for the novelty and comedy value alone and if it doesn't raise a smile then they're not going to react well to anything you say and do.

 

[Dogtrousers]

One bit of advice I've been given is never to use a bell when alerting a horse rider to your presence. Always talk to the rider. I've been told that this enables the horse to recognise that there is actually a person on the bike, and that bells may make the horse go nuts. Whether this is true I don't know, but I'm rather afraid of horses and suspect that they are not too keen on me. I always try to get a "lovely weather" type conversation with the rider, in the hope that this will make the horse think that me and the rider are old mates, and thus be less likely to try to kill me. It has worked so far.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

So how is it different?

Cos in my lived experience the great majority of people on bikes treat pedestrians (& equestrians) on shared paths almost exactly the same way as drivers treat cyclists on shared roads and come out with the same sort of rhetoric when challenged about it.....

You must meet an awful lot of nobbers on bikes then. In my lived experience the great majority of people on bikes on shared paths or simply sharing a communal outdoor space do so with a far higher degree of courtesy and good grace than you find exhibited by people enclosed in motorised vehicles to those not.

I do not say this to denigrate drivers, I've got plenty of history on here defending the average driver from the 'they're all dangerous motons' guff, but a general lack of empathy and protective cocoon effect takes over and does something to an awful lot of people when they get behind a steering wheel. I'm guilty myself, I'm a different and less pleasant driver than I am a cyclist, even though I recognise the trait and try to bring my bike zen into my car.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

You must meet an awful lot of nobbers on bikes then.

I do. It's a Surrey/Sussex/Royal Parks/City of Brighton and Hove Actually/Small Market Town thing I expect.