Reply from Mayor's office re motorcylces in bus lanes

[LOGAN 5]

Got this standard response to another of my e-mails to the Mayor's office regarding motorcycles travelling at high speed undertaking traffic in the bus lane in Streatham/Brixton:

My letter to The Mayor:

I regularly cycle northbound on the A23 through Streatham and Brixton in the shared bus lane with motorcycles. It's a very precarious journey and highly intimidating to be passed by speeding scooters and motorcycles with inches to spare. Cyclists should be able to find some sanctuary in bus lanes away from traffic but with this scheme this is not the case.

Just this morning I saw a speeding sports motorcyclist hooting a relatively fast moving cyclist in the bus lane in Brixton to get out of his way. The cyclist was then cut up whilst trying to get past a bus in the stop as the motorcyclist squeezed passed them.

"ping Boris Johnson". Can you please get yourself on your bike down this dreadful shared A23 "motorway" bus lane in the rush hour to see how bad it is now that motorcyclists can use this convenient high speed undertaking lane.

Motorcyclists use bus lanes not to just pass slow moving/stationary traffic but as a high speed undertaking lane even when other traffic is flowing. They have no reason to be there, they ought to filter/overtake on the outside.

Please, please get motorcyclists out of your red route bus lanes they're a real danger to all cyclists. We want to encourage cycling not discourage it by allowing motorcyclists in.

Don't send me one of your standard letters about this subject, I already have one

Their reply:

I would like to thank you for your email to the Mayor dated 12 September 2008. The Mayor’s office has asked that we reply to your email with further reference to motorcycles in bus lanes.

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in our reply to you. I do appreciate your comments and concerns.

We have noted your strong opposition to motorcycles in bus lanes, especially along the routes you have mentioned. If you do witness any illegal or antisocial activity such as harassment of cyclists by dangerous driving, you may wish to report it to the police. The Metropolitan Police has an online reporting system http://www.met.police.uk/reporting_crime for reporting illegal activity or (s)he can ring 020 7601 2222.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding this matter. Should you require assistance with any further issues, please feel free to contact me.

Yours sincerely
Shakirat Oluwa (Miss)
Customer Service Advisor - London Streets
Transport for London

So they just "note" objections and advise that we ought to just report such incidents to the police. TfL could change their policy and avoid such incidences occurring in the first place! The police aren't interested in these types of incidents in any case. I'm avoiding Streatham/Brixton now that the darker mornings/evenings creeping in.

 

[Cab]

What a waste of time that was Damned stupid response, they surely know that plod aren't going to do anything with these complaints.

 

[Lurker]

".... The Metropolitan Police has an online reporting system http://www.met.police.uk/reporting_crime

(Do not report Road Traffic Accidents, collisions or lost property on this site.)"

A considered response from TfL... methinks not.

Why not take this up with your London Assembly Member? Contact details available via http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

 

[LLB]

Do you honestly think that by banning all motorcycles in this lane, it will make the antisocial riders any less likely to use them ?

 

[Jake]

blood beginging to boil, best not think too much about stupid boris stupid motorbikes on stupid roads which look like a WW1 battlefield with stpuid road markings grrrrrr

 

[LOGAN 5]

Do you honestly think that by banning all motorcycles in this lane, it will make the antisocial riders any less likely to use them ?

Probably not but if they're not allowed then "most" won't venture in them as happens in non red route bus lanes around London. There are also cameras in a lot of the lanes so motorbikes will know they'll get caught too.

In the bus routes they're not allowed in I find those motorbikes that enter them do so much more cautiously and only if they can't filter on the outside. They don't seem to recklessly use them to undertake at speed and to think of the bus lane as just another lane option for them as is the case on the Major's bus lanes.

Your argument is a bit like saying why have speed limits because antisocial motorists will speed in any case. There has to be some regulation or it's just anarchy out there. The biggest/fastest/most aggressive wins.

I'm not anti motorbike. Had loads of motorbikes and have ridden for many years. I used to agree with bikes in bus lanes but since I've seen so much bad motorcyling/scooters/mopeds I've changed my mind. Motorcycling standards have declined drastically. I believe bus lanes should be reserved for buses and cyclists only. Cab drivers are not public transport and shouldn't be allowed in them either.

 

[Tynan]

anyone anticipating some shouting and swearing at motorcyclists in the future?

 

[Origamist]

Do you honestly think that by banning all motorcycles in this lane, it will make the antisocial riders any less likely to use them ?

No, but it tends to limit them to the offiside third of the bus lane when filtering past traffic to their right.

 

[Bollo]

anyone anticipating some shouting and swearing at motorcyclists in the future?

Col told me not to

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

Col told me not to

It's for your own good. They're not hurting anyone or doing anything that affects you so leave them alone. </submissive mode>

 

[joebe]

anyone anticipating some shouting and swearing at motorcyclists in the future?

What? should I not be doing it yet then? Don't get me started on Admiralty Arch.

 

[LOGAN 5]

Am I correct in assuming that if / when motorcyclists being allowed into Bus Lanes come to fruition they - motorbikers - will accept cyclists to move nearer the kerb as they advance to pass on the right, as Black Cabs and Buses currently expect.

Is there an accepted protocol re cyclists and motorbikers sharing Bus-lanes?

Mopeds I assume will continue to ride any old how.

They're already allowed legally in London Red Route bus lanes eg those controlled by Transport for London. Local councils have control over their own bus lanes and as yet most do not allow motorbikes in.

Yes motorbikes expect cycles to be nearer the kerb so they can overtake. They are riding on the outside third of the bus lane exactly where I want to be. If I'm not over by the kerb side or at least left of middle lane then they squeeze past. Given pot holes, manhole covers, slippery white lines/road markings it's hazardous to share such a small space with them.

No accepted protocol. When they come up behind cyclists are expected to move or get buzzed just like taxis will do if they can and/or hooted/shouted at/revved engine etc to get out of the way. Otherwise they just undertake on the inside. They use cycle lanes too as well as ASLs.

I don't want to deliberately get in their way but I want to maintain an assertive road position in the bus lane to prevent swooping taxis/buses but if I'm far over enough for motorbikes to get by then I'm leaving too much room for the latter.

 

[LLB]

Probably not but if they're not allowed then "most" won't venture in them as happens in non red route bus lanes around London. There are also cameras in a lot of the lanes so motorbikes will know they'll get caught too.

In the bus routes they're not allowed in I find those motorbikes that enter them do so much more cautiously and only if they can't filter on the outside. They don't seem to recklessly use them to undertake at speed and to think of the bus lane as just another lane option for them as is the case on the Major's bus lanes.

Your argument is a bit like saying why have speed limits because antisocial motorists will speed in any case. There has to be some regulation or it's just anarchy out there. The biggest/fastest/most aggressive wins.

I'm not anti motorbike. Had loads of motorbikes and have ridden for many years. I used to agree with bikes in bus lanes but since I've seen so much bad motorcyling/scooters/mopeds I've changed my mind. Motorcycling standards have declined drastically. I believe bus lanes should be reserved for buses and cyclists only. Cab drivers are not public transport and shouldn't be allowed in them either.

The problem with this is that it will do nothing for the safety of the ones who are playing the game properly.

TBH if you live in London, you get used to the cut and thrust and aggressiveness in general of all the road users there with few wanting to give or take.

I obviously live outside and I find generally people are much easier going when on the roads.

To exclude all for the actions of a few isn't a way of improving safety standards and does come across as a bit nimbyish

 

[LOGAN 5]

Disagree it's nimbyish. I'm very used to the cut and thrust of London's traffic. As a former motorcyclist I don't agree that it's necessarily safer for bikes to be in bus lanes simply because one would be undertaking traffic at speed - even within the speed limits - and are not as visible to drivers on the outside lane. Cars pull out and cut across the lane and even on a cycle this can be hazardous, as a motorbike is travelling faster this is exacerbated. I personally would prefer (as a motorcyclist) to filter on the outside.

I disagree that you don't think all bikes should be excluded from the bus lane due to a few who are not taking enough care. Their presence in the bus lane causes a natural conflict with slower moving cyclists who often have reason to change direction by only a few inches even - pot holes etc - which is unpredictable to any motorised vehicle travelling up fast behind. Banning all of them is the only way to make bus lanes safer. Again I will say that they have no reason to be there. Why do they have to undertake mostly at speed when traffic is flowing in the other lane. They are not in the bus lane only when the other traffic is stationary or slow moving, they see it as a lane to use to speed down irrespective of who else is in it or what hazards these other users are also negotiating eg buses, taxis, peds, other traffic turning, bad road surfaces , the list goes on.

 

[zimzum42]

It is NIMBYism, whatever they decide to do, someone won't like it. Just this time, a lot of cyclists feel grumpy about this, so they vent their spleen. If the law was reversed, it would be motorcyclists filling Boris' mailbox.

They're damned whatever they do