Reply from Mayor's office re motorcylces in bus lanes

[LLB]

Disagree it's nimbyish. I'm very used to the cut and thrust of London's traffic. As a former motorcyclist I don't agree that it's necessarily safer for bikes to be in bus lanes simply because one would be undertaking traffic at speed - even within the speed limits - and are not as visible to drivers on the outside lane. Cars pull out and cut across the lane and even on a cycle this can be hazardous, as a motorbike is travelling faster this is exacerbated. I personally would prefer (as a motorcyclist) to filter on the outside.

I disagree that you don't think all bikes should be excluded from the bus lane due to a few who are not taking enough care. Their presence in the bus lane causes a natural conflict with slower moving cyclists who often have reason to change direction by only a few inches even - pot holes etc - which is unpredictable to any motorised vehicle travelling up fast behind. Banning all of them is the only way to make bus lanes safer. Again I will say that they have no reason to be there. Why do they have to undertake mostly at speed when traffic is flowing in the other lane. They are not in the bus lane only when the other traffic is stationary or slow moving, they see it as a lane to use to speed down irrespective of who else is in it or what hazards these other users are also negotiating eg buses, taxis, peds, other traffic turning, bad road surfaces , the list goes on.

Sorry bud, you have lost me there . The reason why they want access to the lane is so they don't have to filter in heavy traffic because of the danger this poses to them - exactly the same reason why cyclists want to use the lanes.

Arguing for access for motorcyclists in the bus lanes is to bring a greater degree of safety to them as a group, in the same way which cyclists argue for access to them also.

 

[LOGAN 5]

Perceived safety as a group brings real danger to the safety of cyclists in those bus lanes.

Motorcylist are not safer on the inside undertaking and they don't do it slowly or even cautiously. Cyclists want to use the lanes as it wouldn't be sensible to stay on the outside with moving traffic and buses/taxis going past on the inside bus lane. The bus lane is a sanctuary from motorised traffic except buses/taxis of course. Motorcycles ARE motorised traffic and shouldn't be there.

Cyclists are also a hazard to motorcyclists in the bus lane too you know. I've had to execute some sharp hand signals to absolutely make sure that a sports bike charging up behind me is actually going to slow down to allow me to go past an obstacle, bus or whatever. Even then I'm not sure they're going to give way. It's not acceptable. You really have to ride around London's red route bus lanes to know what I mean. Out in the towns the situation is I'm sure quite different. Since the Congestion Charge there's been an explosion in motorcycle use. A lot of them are car drivers now on bikes (not motorcyclistsbut "People of Motorbikes": and scooters with not much idea about how to ride in London. Natural selection will get a lot of them.

 

[LLB]

Perceived safety as a group brings real danger to the safety of cyclists in those bus lanes.

Motorcylist are not safer on the inside undertaking and they don't do it slowly or even cautiously. Cyclists want to use the lanes as it wouldn't be sensible to stay on the outside with moving traffic and buses/taxis going past on the inside bus lane. The bus lane is a sanctuary from motorised traffic except buses/taxis of course. Motorcycles ARE motorised traffic and shouldn't be there.

Cyclists are also a hazard to motorcyclists in the bus lane too you know. I've had to execute some sharp hand signals to absolutely make sure that a sports bike charging up behind me is actually going to slow down to allow me to go past an obstacle, bus or whatever. Even then I'm not sure they're going to give way. It's not acceptable. You really have to ride around London's red route bus lanes to know what I mean. Out in the towns the situation is I'm sure quite different. Since the Congestion Charge there's been an explosion in motorcycle use. A lot of them are car drivers now on bikes (not motorcyclistsbut "People of Motorbikes": and scooters with not much idea about how to ride in London. Natural selection will get a lot of them.

All the more reason for them to use the lanes, can you not see that they are vulnerable to larger vehicles in the same way a cyclist is

 

[LLB]

I understand where you are coming from LLB, and I know you ride motorbikes as do I. But I would never use a bus lane on a motorbike. It is a bit of a job watching out for buses when you are on a pushbike let alone a motorbike. The way some those motorbike couriers ride as well? them in a bus lane??

I've used the bus lanes in Bristol and Bath for years now on my m/cycle when down there, and to be separated from the traffic means that you don't get some knob sat 6" off your back wheel @ 30mph because you are observing the limits

The difference between being buzzed by a car on a cycle and buzzed by a car on a motorcycle is that they car just wants to get passed on the cycle as most of the time you are unlikely to be near the speed limit, but on a motorcycle, they just want you to go faster because you are already there

 

[LOGAN 5]

All the more reason for them to use the lanes, can you not see that they are vulnerable to larger vehicles in the same way a cyclist is

Not wishing to go round and round with this, but... saying motorbikes are a vulnerable group to larger vehicles so justifies them using bus lanes is a bit like saying as (some) cyclists feel threatened by traffic it's safer for them to be allowed on the pavement (for example) but they then put pedestrians at risk who are also a vulnerable group. The cyclists might feel safer but the peds don't. Not all vulnerable groups should necessarily share the same space. Look at how bad shared use cycle paths are. Moving one vulnerable group to an area used by an even more vulnerable group just endangers the latter.

 

[CotterPin]

+ 1 to that, Logan