Returning a newly bought, used car?

[Time Waster]

If you buy a used car from a car dealership (big or small) and very quickly it becomes apparent that there is an intermittent problem with it that cannot be repeated when you take it to a garage. We are within one month of owning our new car and it has had some noises that are not normal and worrying. We contacted the dealership and he said to take it to a local garage and they would sort the bill out under warranty (3 months). The garage could not identify anything but rusty brake discs common with cars that have been stood for some time. A quick emergency stop or two by the mechanic and that was sorted.

The car did not repeat the noise for a week but yesterday it was so bad a car occupant felt it was painful. This is likely something that will be hard to diagnose as it really happens so irreuglarly and we cannot identify any information to give to the garage other than the noise it makes, which was one noise that yesterday changed to a worse noise.

So this is not a good situation to be in. We are within 30 days which I think is a big deal cutoff time. Am I right in saying that we have the right to return a car within 30 days of purchase if we encounter a fauit? The idea being that it is up to the company selling the car to us to prove it was not present when we bought it. After 30 days we have to prove it was there when we bought it. Is that correct?

Any advice? This is my 6th car, 5th car bought from a dealer. I have never had any issues before so I have had no recourse to my consumer rights. So any recommendations gratefully received.

Our inclination is to call and email tha garage today to inform them that due to the issue with the car and the intermittent nature of the fault, i.e. hard to diagnose, we wish to return the car for a full refund. Is this what our rights allow for? How do we go about this? Anyone done this? How hard was it / how difficult to get a good result?

 

[Time Waster]

BTW the issue is a juddering, vibrating kind of noise that becomes like a pressure that actually caused discomfort to the passengers.

The other issue is the guy running the company is on holiday until after the 30 days deadline for simple refund AIUI is our consumer rights.

So urgent we sort this out quickly. We are thinking an email, phone call and recorded letter to show we made every effort to contact him within the 30 days. That way we were thinking that we can get within the 30 days even if he did not get the messages, letter or phonecall within the 30 days due to his absence without cover. Of course being a small company it is possible that he still takes calls or returns calls when more convenient . All the extra contacting him might be unnecessary. It is to cover us that we are doing the three contact methods. He came across as genuine enough but then a salesman, who knows??

 

[OldShep]

He will of course have given you a copy of his returns policy on purchase. 🤔
Yes you’ve 30 days for a full refund if the fault was there on buying just hope he hasn’t put a milage clause in his which you no doubt signed?
If you don’t want it take it back today and hand over the keys someone doesn’t matter if the boss is away someone has been left in charge.

Octavia's IME are usually sound cars to buy. Have you said whether it’s a dsg or manual box.

 

[bikingdad90]

BTW the issue is a juddering, vibrating kind of noise that becomes like a pressure that actually caused discomfort to the passengers.

We had a problem like this a while ago.

Turned out when they replaced the filters in the service they nipped the seal on the compartment and it was allowing air into the system. I think it was the air filter.
Removing the cover and refitting it sorted the problem out.


When you say irregular, is there any pattern; under acceleration, under braking or when you turn a certain way?

 

[Time Waster]

Manual box.

It is not repeatable in that it happens or it does not no matter how closely we try to repeat the circumstances. It happens at 35-40mph, in that we notice it then or it appears to present then. Not every time.

We do not use the car much at all and have probably put on more miles coming back with it from where we bought it from than since we got it home. So any mileage clause, would that include the getting it home? I bet yes although I cannot see such a clause.

The thing is this issue has happened thee times with the third time there was discomfort in most people, one especially. Strangely our son did not feel that discomfort. With it not coming on when you repeat the circumstances that it happened in then the one technique that mechanics use to understand the issue, namely a test drive, is out. The garage (an independent VW specialist) could not see anything wrong with the car. It was a sound car but due to the surface rust on the discs he thought it was standing unused for some time prior too us taking it. He said he took it for a right wellie on the brakes, it made a terrble noise (which was a secondary issue / noise we told him about) and then it went with the surface rust. He said it has new pads and the discs had plenty of life in them. It has had a bit of work done to replace parts that were OK but could be close to replacement.

It had MOT done when it came off lease (ex MOD). Service history started with this dealer including MOT when it came off lease and got a civilian registration. I have had an ex MOD lease car before and it was my most reliable and highly rated car I have had (a vauxhall astra diesel estate). After the off lease registration and MOT it was sold to this dealer. He has had 30 oof these off MOD lease over the last year he said. He has repeat customers for these from taxi / airport service I think he said.

Anyway, once the dealer got it he serviced it at the local main dealership I think and got a new MOT. No advisories or anything in both the of lease MOT and the dealer's MOT.

The real issue for us is that there is an issue but the difficulty is it cannot be reproduced. So how can a garage find the problem? Are they going to check everything in the car fully? Our VW specialist charged us for half an hour. Not sure if that was just what he charged us for and he did more or he genuinely took half an hour.

So If the dealer plays hardball and we have to take it back for their garage to look into it then are they really going to look fully into it?

 

[Time Waster]

Just had reply. The dealer is all friendly but said the return is due to a serious failure/fault only. A load of blurb about complying to some trade organisation standard or other that they follow. Basically we have to return it to him so he can take back to his main dealer for inspection. The main VW skoda dealership garage will identify and assess the fault for severity to determine if refund is warranted. Not exact words but paraphrased.

So does this 30 days consumer rights mean that the fault has to be of a certain severity or is it any fault with the car that makes it unreliable or unpleasant to use? So this noise is worrying and uncomfortable this last time. Is that not enough reason to return it under the 30 days rights?

This issue is there but there is no guarantee any mechanic in the short time they will allow for the inspection will actually experience it. WIll they really check everything? We have googled and it comes up with some potential issues but new ones each time we describe it. Probably because we use different words each google being hours or days apart and as it happens again and adds something new to the experience of the issue.

So basically, can we insist on this refund even if the dealer and his local garage did not find the very intermittent fault / issue??

BTW the car is good apart from this. IF the garage finds the issue and fixes it we would then have more confidence in it. I personally would be ok with keeping it IF the garage finds and fixes the issue. However the doubt that it was really solved will be there. I would take it back if fixed with the proviso that if the issue returns the dealer would fix it or refund us, but that is legally difficult to enforce so I think it is going to have to be a refund no matter what IF that is possible to insist on / enforce.

Anyone know about this? Any advice or recommendations???

 

[Vapin' Joe]

J

So does this 30 days consumer rights mean that the fault has to be of a certain severity or is it any fault with the car that makes it unreliable or unpleasant to use?

This.

You obviously have not put many miles on the car so a decent test drive by the dealer should show up the fault if it's happened to you on three occasions. Tell them they can have it for a few days and a mechanic can use it to get to work and back if necessary.

 

[Time Waster]

Sorry, just happened twice.

The car is reliable and pleasant to drive until the issue comes along and presents itself. Now IMHO that gives a lack of trust or faith in the car. It has the feeling of unreliability now that this is hanging over us as something that will happen but randomly it seems. You know that feeling about a car after a repaired accident where you get the feeling it is time to replace. Well that is kind of how we feel. It is not the car for us because of this fault that is hanging over its use.

We have elderly relatives that my partner has to drive cross country to visit and help out. We had to turn around when it first happened. Fortunately we still had our other car then. We nearly went to sell our other car on Friday afternoon but chose not to (we buy any car type buyer has a decent offer on it at more than we paid for it). We are not going ahead since we think we will be taking this new car into a garage over this quite a lot until it is sorted. So we feel that we do need to return it. We would drop £1000 if we offloaded it by one of those car places that buy any car.

The issue is I cannot see anything about the fault needing to reach a certain severity level to return it within 30 days. I also think this is one of those faults that could end up with the car going back again and again to the garage. I think it will go back to the dealer and their garage will find and fix an issue. We will then get it back and it comes back again. So the garage fixes a new fault they find and it is now OK again. Only for the issue to reoccur. This intermittent issue has the feeling that it won't be found easily, with a few fixes that do not fix the issue. In such a case would anyone want to keep it? Since this started I think at about the 12th day we owned when we first contacted the dealer over it, then I think refund is a fair, just and legal response.

 

[Drago]

Take it back for a refund. Within 30 days you dont need to give them an opportunity to repair (although you already have.)

Don't take any guff from them, let them read the link for themselves.

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/what-are-a-consumers-legal-rights-when-buying-a-car

If they get arsey park sideways across their entrance until they start playing fair.

 

[Time Waster]

I think they are putting an argument across that it is not of insufficient quality, unfit for purpose or not as described.

The first criteria is why we're returning it. Basically it has a fault that is not stopping the vehicle from going but it is stopping us from using it when it happens. It caused one kid in the car pain. My partner slowed down to below 30 mph on a 40 mph limit road. If that had been a motorway what then?

The replies from the dealer seems to be about only refunding if the garage finds a fault that's serious enough. Two things, one they probably won't find a fault if they can't experience it in a test drive. Secondly AIUI there's no minimum level for a fault for refund within 30 days.

We've asked for a refund within 30 days so clock has stopped I think. The dealer is a one man band so while he's on holiday nothing can be done. When he's back (after the 30 days) we're going to take time off work to take it in to him. That is an hour each way then again if he fixes the car and / or refuses a refund then that's another return trip.

If their garage finds what they say is the issue and fix it then do we have to take it back or can we insist on a refund? The reason I am asking is that whilst I would be happpy with this car if it didn't have or never had this issue, I do not think it will be so easy a fix. If their fix is not a full fix and this comes back then AIUI we are still in the 30 day right for a refund situation since it is the same probllem. However the time elapsed has an implication. They will still be liable to refund but not at full sales price, they will be able to adjust according to time we have had it. This is not a great issue as that refund then means we will need to find even more money for a replacement car.

Put simply we will not be at ease with this car whether it is not "fixed" or it is "fixed". The only way that works for us is a full refund. Is that something that can be forced on the garage? I think it is the legal situation but as with anything what is in the law needs to be enforced. In this case there is always the trade body that the dealer is a member of that you can refer the case to. Then there is what is called an ADR which is a trade arbitration of kinds with a body that they have signed up to. There is the motor ombudsman too. Then there is a court case as the last resort. All hassle we do not need right now or ever.

We have just asked one of those who was in the car and he described as like when a plane takes off or lands but with a fluctuations. That implies a pressure situation inside the car. What the.... What could that be? Someone hass said an filter leak allowing air to go straight into the car? That would make sense I guess.

We are thinking of going to another garage that could not see it quickly enough so we went elsewhere. If we get in with them they come across as more professional garage if that makes sense. So perhaps this new infor might lead to a fix.Then I guess we have to keep it. That is mixed. Is it really fixed?? Then again if it is then it is a decent car for our needs.

 

[Drago]

It has a fault.

You can return it within 30 says without argument.

Period, as the muricans say.




Insufficient or merchantable quality, etc, are utterly irrelevant. They might as well cite puff the magic dragon for all it has to do with the matter.

Please tell me you paid the deposit with a credit card for the consumer protection...?

 

[OldShep]

We have just asked one of those who was in the car and he described as like when a plane takes off or lands but with a fluctuations. That implies a pressure situation inside the car. What the.... What could that be?

A partially open window? 😅
Does it only happen when there is a child in the back.

Edit to add. Just discovered it has an actual name. Helmholtz Resonance

 

[Jameshow]

How about recording the sound / vibration on a phone?

How about asking for a different car? Might be more sensible to that?

I have an occy I'll swap for it! Rusty as a navy destroyer!

 

[Gunk]

Take it back for a refund. Within 30 days you dont need to give them an opportunity to repair (although you already have.)

Don't take any guff from them, let them read the link for themselves.

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/what-are-a-consumers-legal-rights-when-buying-a-car

If they get arsey park sideways across their entrance until they start playing fair.

If you can demonstrate that the fault was there when you bought it then you are entitled to a full refund, as the car was not of merchantable quality. May be worth calling your local trading standards officer for some advice, but don’t be fobbed off, asking you to take it to a dealer is just them buying some time.

 

[Drago]

The presumption is within the first 6 months that the fault was either present or developing at the point of sale.