Road bike buying advice for newbie

[Grant Fondo]

Sorry, but that is just not true.

First, there is the fact that the higher level frame & components are almost always lighter than the cheap ones, which is going to make some difference to how fast you can ride.

Then, the higher level components are built with tighter tolerances, meaning they should run more freely - there will be less friction loss in the drivetrain. There are other factors such as stiffness that can also affect the speed, because that again makes a difference to how much of the power you put through the pedals is actually transferred to the tyres on the road. And the tyres themselves also make a difference.

The difference between the speeds you can regularly maintain on a cheapo bike ands what you can do on a high mediums level bike can easily be 10% or a bitr more.

With you on this Alex ... you really notice the difference on more expensive kit. My only direct comparison is going from bottom rung Allez to Synapse Ultegra (many years ago) ... night and day, and also £1500 lighter in the wallet.

 

[Alex321]

With you on this Alex ... you really notice the difference on more expensive kit. My only direct comparison is going from bottom rung Allez to Synapse Ultegra (many years ago) ... night and day, and also £1500 lighter in the wallet.

Yeah. For me it was going from a £500 Boardman hybrid to a £2100 Cube road bike at the start of August. And I know it isn't just the difference in price, but also the difference between a hybrid and a road bike, but there are clear differences which go beyond that.

 

[Grant Fondo]

Yeah. For me it was going from a £500 Boardman hybrid to a £2100 Cube road bike at the start of August. And I know it isn't just the difference in price, but also the difference between a hybrid and a road bike, but there are clear differences which go beyond that.

I have always thought its when you get into the top rung carbon frames with a modest groupset as the big banker. Plenty of average frames with 'bling' groupsets around. Frame is king in this game

 

[cyberknight]

well going from a hybrid to a road bike is the biggest factor in aero dynamic body position as most of the saving are down to drag .
here is a calculator i found
https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
lets say 150 lbs rider weight and 17 lb bike on the flat
200 watts is 20.94 mph 309 watts at 25 mph
then same rider 30 lb bike
200 watts is 20.83 mph 327 watts at 25 mph

as expected at higher speeds the drag is the biggest factor

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Sorry, but that is just not true.

First, there is the fact that the higher level frame & components are almost always lighter than the cheap ones, which is going to make some difference to how fast you can ride.

Then, the higher level components are built with tighter tolerances, meaning they should run more freely - there will be less friction loss in the drivetrain. There are other factors such as stiffness that can also affect the speed, because that again makes a difference to how much of the power you put through the pedals is actually transferred to the tyres on the road. And the tyres themselves also make a difference.

The difference between the speeds you can regularly maintain on a cheapo bike ands what you can do on a high mediums level bike can easily be 10% or a bitr more.

We are talking about miniscule differences overall. A couple of pounds weight reduction on a total bike & rider combo that will typically be 200 pounds or more is 1%. The bigger the rider, the less significant bike weight becomes. It's perfectly true that better machined parts will run more smoothly with less friction, but again the differences between a pair of cheapo wheel hubs and a pair of very expensive ones is not going to be more than a couple of watts worth of frictional drag at the most.
Tyres can play a significant part, and riders willing to buy expensive bikes tend to be more willing to shell out for expensive easy rolling road tyres - which can make some real difference. Riders who only buy cheap bikes tend to run cheaper more draggy tyres, unless they need extra tough ones for the puncture resistance.
Bike frames that flex store energy, which is returned when the applying force that caused the deflection is removed. There are virtually no actual losses involved, just a perception that stiff frames are quicker responding than more flexible ones.
Attainable performance has a lot to do with rider committment. Someone who will pay top dollar for the latest gear probably cares more about maximising performance than someone like me, who doesn't give a toss even when I'm riding a high quality relatively light bike. You could put me on a £10k carbon wonder and I would not go significantly faster than on the cheapest drop bar machine imaginable. I'm simply not bothered, so I am never going to ride either a cheap or expensive bike as hard as possible.

 

[DRM]

We are talking about miniscule differences overall. A couple of pounds weight reduction on a total bike & rider combo that will typically be 200 pounds or more is 1%. The bigger the rider, the less significant bike weight becomes. It's perfectly true that better machined parts will run more smoothly with less friction, but again the differences between a pair of cheapo wheel hubs and a pair of very expensive ones is not going to be more than a couple of watts worth of frictional drag at the most.
Tyres can play a significant part, and riders willing to buy expensive bikes tend to be more willing to shell out for expensive easy rolling road tyres - which can make some real difference. Riders who only buy cheap bikes tend to run cheaper more draggy tyres, unless they need extra tough ones for the puncture resistance.
Bike frames that flex store energy, which is returned when the applying force that caused the deflection is removed. There are virtually no actual losses involved, just a perception that stiff frames are quicker responding than more flexible ones.
Attainable performance has a lot to do with rider committment. Someone who will pay top dollar for the latest gear probably cares more about maximising performance than someone like me, who doesn't give a toss even when I'm riding a high quality relatively light bike. You could put me on a £10k carbon wonder and I would not go significantly faster than on the cheapest drop bar machine imaginable. I'm simply not bothered, so I am never going to ride either a cheap or expensive bike as hard as possible.

If I go out on my carbon framed Giant Defy, I'm considerably quicker than when on the old steel Raleigh MTB, with road tyres, theres no real difference between my Giant, or the Marin Gestalt 2 gravel bike (with it's road wheel/tyres on) with it's aluminium frame, both with Tiagra, 4600 on the Giant, 4700 on the Marin, in fact there's not much difference when it has the gravel/off tarmac oriented tyres either, but both are light years away from a 30 year old Raleigh that I would consider as a bike for pootling to the shops, or sight seeing and not rushing about.

 

[Grant Fondo]

My 26 year old rigid Cannondale MTB is surprisingly fast on 35c slicks (old Kojaks) ... thats why i have never owned a hybrid.

 

[DRM]

My 26 year old rigid Cannondale MTB is surprisingly fast on 35c slicks (old Kojaks) ... thats why i have never owned a hybrid.

I've also got a 10 year old Cannondale SL3 MTB, which on knobblies is far more rapid than the old Raleigh, but as they say, the Raleigh is fine for taking time to smell the coffee, and taking it easy.

 

[Grant Fondo]

I've also got a 10 year old Cannondale SL3 MTB, which on knobblies is far more rapid than the old Raleigh, but as they say, the Raleigh is fine for taking time to smell the coffee, and taking it easy.

Lack of weight helps too .... my M500 Canny is about 10.5 kg. Think what even an expensive full suss MTB weighs. This £4k Marin is 14.5kg, gulp

 

[stalagmike]

Totally agree I'm 6ft 3i

Lack of weight helps too .... my M500 Canny is about 10.5 kg. Think what even an expensive full suss MTB weighs. This £4k Marin is 14.5kg, gulp
View attachment 610774

Yeah but only a mug would ride a 4k full susser anywhere other than down a rocky mountain. Wouldn't they? 😃

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Think what even an expensive full suss MTB weighs. This £4k Marin is 14.5kg, gulp

So the £4k Marin weighs the same as my 30 year old 501 framed Raleigh MTB that owes me £20 for the three years I've been riding it. The Marin will be more draggy too, with having suspension and off-road tyres.
The Marin is obviously more capable in extreme terrain, but for general pootling around it's all wasted. You wouldn't leave one outide a shop or pub where I live and expect it to still be there when you came back!
With semi-slick Swalbe Silento and mixed use Land Cruiser tyres the old Raleigh can be surprisingly quick compared to my hack MTB's running the cheapest and most knobbly Chinese things I have salvaged. Tyre losses when you are comparing knobbly types to anything else are really significant. way more than weight savings and marginal friction reductions from high precision component manufacturing.

 

[Grant Fondo]

Yeah but only a mug would ride a 4k full susser anywhere other than down a rocky mountain. Wouldn't they? 😃

You would be surprised. Don't get me wrong I bet that Marin is fantastic in the really rough stuff.

 

[DRM]

So the £4k Marin weighs the same as my 30 year old 501 framed Raleigh MTB that owes me £20 for the three years I've been riding it. The Marin will be more draggy too, with having suspension and off-road tyres.
The Marin is obviously more capable in extreme terrain, but for general pootling around it's all wasted. You wouldn't leave one outide a shop or pub where I live and expect it to still be there when you came back!
With semi-slick Swalbe Silento and mixed use Land Cruiser tyres the old Raleigh can be surprisingly quick compared to my hack MTB's running the cheapest and most knobbly Chinese things I have salvaged. Tyre losses when you are comparing knobbly types to anything else are really significant. way more than weight savings and marginal friction reductions from high precision component manufacturing.

That's because it's a downhill MTB, horses for courses, you get the uplift back to the top, then hurl yourself back down a very technical, very steep descent, I don't think any 30 year old Raleigh is designed for that kind of abuse

View: https://youtu.be/jmjwDmBjaWU

If you can do the above on a 30 year old Raleigh, you're a better man than me!!

 

[AdamD1]

Another potential to the mix - canondale synapse tiagra. Any thoughts on this one?

 

[Alex321]

Another potential to the mix - canondale synapse tiagra. Any thoughts on this one?

Mechanical disc brakes, rather than hydraulic. Even the 105 version still has mechanical disc brakes.