Sad death

[Rhythm Thief]

Actually I was more annoyed at the way it was reported, I do have some sympathy for the driver. But there is an attitude in the press and amongst the great unwashed that if a cyclist or a pedestrian is run over, that is somehow their fault and that drivers are blameless...

But sometimes, as Arch says, the victim should bear some of the blame. In this case, she should have been walking facing the traffic at the very least. It's a dreadful incident, true, but I don't think it's been reported too badly.

 

[Tynan]

anyone in an unlit road after dark in dark clothes is asking to be run over, sorry but it's that simple for me

even if she'd been riding the bike, if there's no lights and refectors, the same

I've nearly hit other cyclists in the dark a couple of times, there's sometimes nothing of them to see other than a shape against some fortunate backdrop

 

[downfader]

But sometimes, as Arch says, the victim should bear some of the blame. In this case, she should have been walking facing the traffic at the very least. It's a dreadful incident, true, but I don't think it's been reported too badly.

True, though I do feel the coroner's words do add a certain doom to it all. Did the driver veer into the shoulder past the white line I wonder? I see plenty of drivers do that here at night on the more unlit roads (places where I wouldnt consider cycling tbh for that reason)

 

[Will1985]

As a driver I don't like certain dark light conditions when there are oncoming vehicles lit up - especially the dazzling halogen kind. Sometimes they are so bright I don't think I would be able to properly notice a cyclist with reflective gear.
I tend to drive closer to the centre of the road for this very reason, although driving in rural Norfolk it tends to be wildlife such as deer and rabbits hugging the edge of the road.

 

[buggi]

As a driver I don't like certain dark light conditions when there are oncoming vehicles lit up - especially the dazzling halogen kind. Sometimes they are so bright I don't think I would be able to properly notice a cyclist with reflective gear.
I tend to drive closer to the centre of the road for this very reason, although driving in rural Norfolk it tends to be wildlife such as deer and rabbits hugging the edge of the road.

i agree. although it is sad, yes she should have been walking facing oncoming traffic.

Also, with oncoming headlights, it is not at all unfeasible that she would have disappeared into the casting shadows and become invisible. i've seen this happen with a bike when i was sitting in a stationary car, a kid rode his bike towards me and as a car came up behind him he completely disappeared from view between the headlamps before the car overtook him. it amazed me just how invisible he became. obviously it didn't help that he was wearing black and yes, had no lights.

 

[peanut]

in the winter when i am driving home from work on country roads with no kerbs or pavements and high earth banks on both sides of a road barely wide enough for two cars to pass I am very concious that when other cars are approaching and passing that for a few seconds I couldn't see if there was a parked bus let alone a pedestrian.


Its a very tragic accident and my heart goes out to the girls parents and the bus driver but we really do need a national campaign to promote sensible clothing reflective strips and torches etc on pedestrians and especially to make sure peds realise they should always walk towards oncoming traffic never away from it.

 

[ed_o_brain]

The report comments on the cyclist having "no light or front reflector" which infers:

- she was travelling against the flow of traffic thus the presence of rear reflector is academic
- she was travelling with flow of traffic and rear reflector was present

Those digital CCTV cameras are small and thus look like they have tiny sensors so I can't see them working that well at night.

With the facts that are clear I do agree it's not possible to blame the bus driver and the victim should have had some lights.

 

[Crankarm]

If the bus driver couldn't see her, then presumably she must have either seen or heard the bus surely? Buses even at night, discounting the headlights, are well lit and make a fair amount of noise. There is no mention whether she attempted to get out of the way. If I were walking down an unlit road with no lights in dark clothing pushing a knackered bike (which I wouldn't be anyway) and I heard a bus coming I would get off the road onto what ever if it meant me not being knocked down. Something is not quite right here. It is a tragedy that a young woman has lost her life. Did the driver see her at the last minute try and overtake her in between an approaching car and just clip her? While the car that had been approaching continues on? Very sad. Bottom line though she should have had lights/reflectors on her bike and some sort of reflective clothing or just not been doing what she was in the those circumstances .

 

[downfader]

Bollox, don't try and speculate DF. Remember there was a passneger on board as well and the GPS showed that the vehicle was travelling below the speed limit for the vehicle.

That is just plain crazy, granted I know I've said about not using lights but I would never go down an unlit country lane with no lights and no reflective gear you are just asking for trouble.

You are correct I was speculating.. I dont see what was wrong with that myself as it was clear it was just me thinking off the top of my head.

As for GPS - it only shows basic direction and speed... not minor deviations in trajectory (its early and I cant spell)

Oh and I dont think anyone asks for trouble of this kind...

 

[Randochap]

Proper lighting.

Safety.

 

[Bman]

One thing no-one has mentioned yet:

Buses have internal lighting. We all know how that effects external visibility. Imagine that road in those conditions, but in a car and your passenger turns on the internal overhead light....

You cant see sh1t

 

[Goffins]

I'm not looking to blame anyone but how on earth has cycle lights or high vis clothing have anything to do with this scenario? She was not riding the bike, therefore she was a pedestrian and how many pedestrians do you see walking along with cat eyes attached to their arses?

If the bus driver was unable to see a pedestrian with his headlights on it would suggest that he was driving too fast for the conditions despite being under the legal limit.

Maybe another way to look at this is to enforce higher wattage lights on all Public transport that reguarly uses unlit roads, or perhaps a set of individual lights that point diagonally out to at least increase the drivers chances of seeing anything at the side of the road.

 

[peanut]

I'm not looking to blame anyone but how on earth has cycle lights or high vis clothing have anything to do with this scenario? She was not riding the bike, therefore she was a pedestrian and how many pedestrians do you see walking along with cat eyes attached to their arses?

If the bus driver was unable to see a pedestrian with his headlights on it would suggest that he was driving too fast for the conditions despite being under the legal limit.

Maybe another way to look at this is to enforce higher wattage lights on all Public transport that reguarly uses unlit roads, or perhaps a set of individual lights that point diagonally out to at least increase the drivers chances of seeing anything at the side of the road.

you are obviously not a driver goffins . if you were you would appreciate that the reason drivers can see less at night on unlit roads is because of the glare from the headlights of oncoming traffic. If everyone increased their lighting beyond the legal limit everyone would be blinded wouldn't they !.In any case drivers are obliged to dip their main beams for oncoming traffic for that very reason

We all have a personal responsibility to act sensibly for ourselves and other road users on the road. Given that there was clearly no pavement and she had dark clothing on at night time with no lights or reflectors she should not have walked or pushed her bike along that stretch of road.

 

[purplepolly]

One thing no-one has mentioned yet:

Buses have internal lighting. We all know how that effects external visibility. Imagine that road in those conditions, but in a car and your passenger turns on the internal overhead light....

You cant see sh1t

For this reason the lights in the passenger area around the cab are operated seperately to the rest of the bus. Normally they only come on when the door opens, but when I was going home a couple of years ago on the night of those 80mph winds and central Manchester was gridlocked, the driver kept switching on the lights in between moving forward a couple of feet so that I could read my book.

 

[MartinC]

Interesting comment in the verdict - "The bus was being driven in a proper manner and one of the passengers was aware of Tracey."