Sad death

[Goffins]

you are obviously not a driver goffins . if you were you would appreciate that the reason drivers can see less at night on unlit roads is because of the glare from the headlights of oncoming traffic. If everyone increased their lighting beyond the legal limit everyone would be blinded wouldn't they !.In any case drivers are obliged to dip their main beams for oncoming traffic for that very reason

We all have a personal responsibility to act sensibly for ourselves and other road users on the road. Given that there was clearly no pavement and she had dark clothing on at night time with no lights or reflectors she should not have walked or pushed her bike along that stretch of road.

I drive a motorbike and a car and this story does not mention anyone being blinded by oncoming lights, are you suggesting it's impossible for the bus company to produce a non glare angled road light that gives them a better awareness of items to the side of the road?

Utter tosh.

 

[marinyork]

I agree with Goffins. As the person was a pedestrian there is no legal need to go round blaming them and if it were a car I know the response on here might be very different. They didn't have to have lights or anything else, infact I suspect had they been wearing light clothing and low powered lights it might not have made much difference. I've ridden that stretch of road at dark, it's not especially long, there's good line of sight, I'm really puzzled as to why the driver didn't see her, it really strikes me as odd and I think it must be down to some some very poor lapse by the driver, the ped was drunk or confused or some other issue they aren't telling us.

As for the people on here saying she shouldn't have been on that road it's only one of two through roads for a very long way, there's little choice and it's probably the safest route available.

 

[J4CKO]

It is very sad that the girl died, hopefully some good can come out of this and persuade the unlit cyclists of the world to just get some f*cking lights, there is enough danger inherant in our transport preference without making it worse by being largely invisible, even when lit up and hi-vizzed to the hilt drivers still miss us and still choose to make rash maneuvers even when they have seen us, I would take a close overtake by an impatient twat who hs seen me over not being seen by a perfectly stable and steady bus driver.

I get agitated when I only have one light on as it may fail and I have no backup, at that point, without light I would stop and call someone to pick me up or make sure I was well out of the way of traffic.

I hate to say it but there is a slight whiff of Darwinism about this, harsh but true, cycling in the dark wearing dark clothes with massive heavy tin boxes flying past, driven by people who probably cant see you, doesnt take a genius to realise the risk does it ?, I cannot understand why people dont buy lights, I see it all the time, they seem to have the attitude it wont happen to them, they adjust their riding (pavement ?) and have a look of slight sheepishness, like they want the journey to be over.

I am sure the Bus driver would not choose to run people over, I am sure he has lost a lot of sleep and it may have ruined his life, career or relationship because this girl cycled in the dark with no lights, dont dress it up because she died and she is one of ours so to speak, from the facts, it sounds like it was her fault and think about this, if the bus driver saw her and swerved into oncoming traffic and hit your wife or husbands car head on with your kids in would you still be so sympathetic ?

 

[marinyork]

You're wrong Jacko, most of the things you've written are irrelevent and plain factually wrong. She wasn't cycling, by all accounts she was walking, there is no pavement along that stretch of that road (I've cycled it at night), it's one of only two through routes, peds walk in the dark in dark clothes on country lanes all the time. As she was a pedestrian she isn't one of ours just in the same way I think people are being too sympathetic here because the other driver was a bus driver. She could have done more to be seen but in that situation it has to be assumed to be ultimately mostly the driver of the vehicles fault. So I'd say it's about 80% the bus driver's fault unless there was some other factor like the ped being confused or drunk. There seems to be a lack of evidence and irrelevent focusing on the speed of the driver and probably poor CCTV to try and blame the ped. It's sad a relatively short walk along a route there was little choice about and should be easy to see someone has led to a death.

 

[J4CKO]

Regarless of whether she was walking or cycling it is foolish to put yourself in a situation like that, the prescence of a bike with no lights on indicates she had been cycling without lights, one pair of LED flashers from Tesco's at about a fiver will save your life in these situations.

I think there needs to be some stark truths said about cycling without lights, usually its not the same as being a ped as peds cross the roads and can stop, look and listen (well some do) and wait for a gap, if cycling on the road you are in the line of fire so to speak, all the time, however I would consider walking along an unlit road without lights in pretty much the same manner as cycling it, foolish and fraught with danger.

 

[downfader]

Regarless of whether she was walking or cycling it is foolish to put yourself in a situation like that, the prescence of a bike with no lights on indicates she had been cycling without lights, one pair of LED flashers from Tesco's at about a fiver will save your life in these situations.

I think there needs to be some stark truths said about cycling without lights, usually its not the same as being a ped as peds cross the roads and can stop, look and listen (well some do) and wait for a gap, if cycling on the road you are in the line of fire so to speak, all the time, however I would consider walking along an unlit road without lights in pretty much the same manner as cycling it, foolish and fraught with danger.

You say all that but a non-bike-pushing pedestrian would have been equally at risk there. We dont know the young ladies social situation - she may not have had anyone to phone and come pick her up saving herself the walk, she may have walked that road a few times without incident.

She was effectively doing the right thing - I didnt see anywhere in the article that told of the direction she was walking (eg towards or away from traffic). Anyway - tell me how she could cycle with only one pedal?

If you're gonna direct some kind of judgement about safety then direct it at all, not just the cyclist, as I said earlier people without a bike would have been just as invisible there.

 

[Arch]

She was effectively doing the right thing - I didnt see anywhere in the article that told of the direction she was walking (eg towards or away from traffic). Anyway - tell me how she could cycle with only one pedal?

From the fact that it mentions the lack of a front light, or front reflector, but didn't mention anything on the rear, I read it as her walking towards the bus (IE correctly for a pedestrian).

I was once driving a minibus through border country in Northern Ireland, and my headlights illuminated an army patrol walking in the road ahead. At the sound of my engine, they all stepped sideways. And disappeared, utterly - for a moment I thought I must have imagined them. Ok, they were in khaki, and that's MEANT to blend in, but on the verge, they simply became invisible. So I guess it might well be that the poor girl simply didn't show up against the side of the road...

Also, thinking about it, not having lights on the bike doesn't necessarily mena she was going to cycle unlit - it's just possible that she stayed out later than intended and got caught out...

Still, it just goes to show that it's perhaps worth always carrying something reflective, even just a Sam Browne type belt rolled up in a pocket, just in case you end up walking along an unlit road. (good reason for all car drivers to have a hi-vis vest for everyone as well, in case of breakdown)

 

[J4CKO]

If you are "invisible" then walking up a road is just plain daft, most of the time people get away with taking risks and I appreciate that she may not have had anyone to pick her up but I cannot approtion must blame to the bus driver in this case, I personally have had some surprises when driving with pedestrians walking up local country lanes on the way back from the pub, we are always down on drivers of motor vehicles on here but sometimes it is not their fault.

Regardless of the state of her bike, whether she could ride it or not, she made the concious decision to go out after dusk unlit, we talk about Ninja cyclists on here all the time, well it looks like this poor girl was the one that got caught out. I try to take responsibility for my own safety all the time and not rely on car drivers, they tend to dissapoint, I only hope to rely on their vigilance when I make a mistake, I suspect this is perhaps an age related thing, do you still feel the invincibility of youth at 24 ? I would personally buy anyone I know a set of lights rather than let them ride unlit, it amazes me the number of kids and teenagers I see unlit, do their parents condone this ?

Tragic, I fully sympathise, I separate the human cost and anguish that has been caused from the facts as I see them, we dress it up and say there there its not your fault, it was the nasty Bus Driver to those who make these choices and they continue to take these risks and end up getting hurt or killed, sorry but we need to make it very clear what the possible consequences are.

Remember it is actually an offence to cycle at night unlit, that may sem a petty and callous thing to say in a case like this but proper enforcement of this rule would save lives.

Any opinion on here will not bring her back, but getting the message across might save others.

 

[downfader]

If you are "invisible" then walking up a road is just plain daft, most of the time people get away with taking risks and I appreciate that she may not have had anyone to pick her up but I cannot approtion must blame to the bus driver in this case, I personally have had some surprises when driving with pedestrians walking up local country lanes on the way back from the pub, we are always down on drivers of motor vehicles on here but sometimes it is not their fault.

Regardless of the state of her bike, whether she could ride it or not, she made the concious decision to go out after dusk unlit, we talk about Ninja cyclists on here all the time, well it looks like this poor girl was the one that got caught out. I try to take responsibility for my own safety all the time and not rely on car drivers, they tend to dissapoint, I only hope to rely on their vigilance when I make a mistake, I suspect this is perhaps an age related thing, do you still feel the invincibility of youth at 24 ? I would personally buy anyone I know a set of lights rather than let them ride unlit, it amazes me the number of kids and teenagers I see unlit, do their parents condone this ?

Tragic, I fully sympathise, I separate the human cost and anguish that has been caused from the facts as I see them, we dress it up and say there there its not your fault, it was the nasty Bus Driver to those who make these choices and they continue to take these risks and end up getting hurt or killed, sorry but we need to make it very clear what the possible consequences are.

Remember it is actually an offence to cycle at night unlit, that may sem a petty and callous thing to say in a case like this but proper enforcement of this rule would save lives.

Any opinion on here will not bring her back, but getting the message across might save others.

You've gone off on a ramble that is lacking in logic.

No one is blaming the bus driver, here (well most posts that I remember). If you know of a safe route that she could have taken in the area then please tell us?

And yes you are right, it is illegal to cycle at night with no lights (we all know that), but this clearly wasnt the case here, did you even read the article..?

 

[gavintc]

I think the bike is a red herring here. She was a pedestrian and was knocked down by a bus. I believe she takes some responsibility, but walking along a road should not be made impossible simply because cars and buses use it. I personally believe that some (about 50%) of the blame rests with the driver.

 

[samid]

It strikes me as more than a bit weird that - according to the article - the bus driver didn't understand what was going on even after he'd hit the girl. How invisible could she and her bicycle be for that?

 

[thomas]

It strikes me as more than a bit weird that - according to the article - the bus driver didn't understand what was going on even after he'd hit the girl. How invisible could she and her bicycle be for that?

Having actually seen someone who has been hit by a car (possibly doing about 60mph) at night (on an unlit road) I can understand. The incident I saw you could roughly make out the shape of a person, flung into the gutter. Then another 10 yards up, you could see the car, the a push bike embedded within the cars radiator grill. The man and his bike didn't seem to have any lights on it, and I could barely make him out, even within a car with headlights on. I've no idea if the cyclist survived or not, but I really feel for the driver having to live with hitting him. We got there after it had happened, and plenty of people had stopped (if I were driving I would have stopped too, but this was quite a few years ago now). It wouldn't have surprised me, at all, if the driver wasn't aware what they had hit straight away. Therefore, if the girl on the bike, had gone under the bus or been flung aside, it wouldn't surprise me that the driver wasn't aware.

In this case, there is a reasonable foot path/cycle path, which if you are without lights would have made a lot of sense to have used.

I don't know the situation enough here to really comment, but from what I've read, I think the the girl who got hit does sound mainly to blame. If you're out at night you do need to take extra care, yes you should be able to walk along a road, but you should do it carefully, walking into traffic and never assuming you've been seen (especially when you're in dark clothing). With dipped head lights on and headlights of other cars in your eyes it can be difficult to make everything out. The amount of times I've driven and been startled by other people's headlights, especially when people don't turn full beam off (almost blinding with modern bulb technology).

Though what happened to her is terrible, in these sorts of situations I can feel equally as sorry for the driver. I can only imagine how sick I'd feel if I'd just hit someone - whether or not it was my fault.

 

[Randochap]

I fail to see what is so complicated about this sad case that it warrants 5 pages of diatribes for/against.

The coroner seems to have summed things up pretty succinctly when he opined that walking along an unlit road with no lights or reflective clothing, was "always going to be fraught with danger".

It's very sad that it cost this young woman her life; hers and many others who might have gone on to a good life, but for this common and unfathomable practice.

Again, we might note that it was a mountain bike she was pushing.

If we want a debate, we might ask what has happened to the concept of a proper roadworthy bicycle. If blame should be laid anywhere, it should be at the feet of the bicycle industry and shops who have forgotten what such a machine is.

And here's a hereticial thought: If the industry can't rediscover common sense, then maybe government needs to step in and legislate safety.

Discuss ....

 

[gavintc]

I fail to see what is so complicated about this sad case that it warrants 5 pages of diatribes for/against.

The coroner seems to have summed things up pretty succinctly when he opined that walking along an unlit road with no lights or reflective clothing, was "always going to be fraught with danger".

It's very sad that it cost this young woman her life; hers and many others who might have gone on to a good life, but for this common and unfathomable practice.

Again, we might note that it was a mountain bike she was pushing.

If we want a debate, we might ask what has happened to the concept of a proper roadworthy bicycle. If blame should be laid anywhere, it should be at the feet of the bicycle industry and shops who have forgotten what such a machine is.

And here's a hereticial thought: If the industry can't rediscover common sense, then maybe government needs to step in and legislate safety.

Discuss ....

Even a top end £5000 bike can become inoperable through a broken chain, pedal, twisted wheel. I think you are on a rather weird mission here. There will always be BSOs, and I do not think it wise for a government to start defining what a bike looks like.

 

[Crankarm]

I fail to see what is so complicated about this sad case that it warrants 5 pages of diatribes for/against.

The coroner seems to have summed things up pretty succinctly when he opined that walking along an unlit road with no lights or reflective clothing, was "always going to be fraught with danger".

It's very sad that it cost this young woman her life; hers and many others who might have gone on to a good life, but for this common and unfathomable practice.

Again, we might note that it was a mountain bike she was pushing.

If we want a debate, we might ask what has happened to the concept of a proper roadworthy bicycle. If blame should be laid anywhere, it should be at the feet of the bicycle industry and shops who have forgotten what such a machine is.

And here's a hereticial thought: If the industry can't rediscover common sense, then maybe government needs to step in and legislate safety.

Discuss ....

I think it is going a wee bit too far to say just because of this incident it is the responsibility of the bicycle industry to make sure bicycles are roadworthy. After they have been sold complying with the law with their reflectors front, rear and pedals and bell, how is it their repsonsibilty? It is the responsibilty of the user of the bike to ensure that it is roadworthy, period. We don't know if the bike was new (unlikely for a pedal to be faulty or missing) or a total jallopy. Whether she acquired the bike from a retailer or through a private sale or had just borrowed it. Your post started fine quoting the coroner but then descended into a diatribe rant on something totally unrelated. You don't need to be an Einstein to realise that walking on a busy road at night with out lighting in black clothing has to be extremely hazardous whether you are entitled to do so or not. As you say the coroner reached the correct conclusion. I agree. It is still sad that the young woman lost her life as she did not realise the danger she put herself in by doing as she did.

Reading this sad tale I thought of the analogy searching for a black cat in a darkened room, that isn't there.