Saddened by ninja

[StuartG]

A massive majority of drivers and all road users do act sensibly and responsibly, the problem is with the tiny minority who don't.

Quite a claim and one at variance with statistics I seem to recall. Well if you promise to go away and find some to support your case I will try and dig up mine. Then we can see which way probability falls.

Fancy putting a tenner on the outcome?

Not that i'm saying cyclists are any better. Cyclists do infringe less but that's probably because there is less opportunity to infringe. Well not many of us can break the national speed limit ...

 

[StuartG]

Right got it. The tiny minority of motorists who don't drive sensibly and responsibly is a truly a tiny 83% (RAC linky). My apologies I didn't realise it was that small. Any chance of that tenner

 

[Davidc]

Quite a claim and one at variance with statistics I seem to recall. Well if you promise to go away and find some to support your case I will try and dig up mine. Then we can see which way probability falls.

Fancy putting a tenner on the outcome?

Not that i'm saying cyclists are any better. Cyclists do infringe less but that's probably because there is less opportunity to infringe. Well not many of us can break the national speed limit ...

Simple.

If it wasn't the case the roads would be unuseable by anyone, and cars would be uninsureable.

Add to that simple observation while using the roads.

QED

 

[Dan B]

I don't know anyone who finds the section I've coloured red acceptable. Most adults I know drive. You must associate with some odd people.

Imagine any of the people you know as a magistrate, or on a jury, asked to rule on a case where a driver pulled out of a junction on his way to work knocking down a cyclist and later said he'd had a restless night because his small child had been ill. Would they be saying "no, that's unacceptable, you should have taken the day off work, now you're going down for a tretch" or would they be saying "oh no, how unfortunate (yes I realise you need the car or you'll lose your job and your family will be homeless)" and thinking "wow, I'm glad that wasn't me"? THere's a range of possible reactions depending on individual's experiences, but I imagine that most drivers would be more towards the lenient end of the continuum not the the strict one. There's a strong sense of "there but for the grace of God" in social reactions to car accidents

 

[StuartG]

Simple.
If it wasn't the case the roads would be unuseable by anyone, and cars would be uninsureable.
Add to that simple observation while using the roads.
QED

You are absolutely right of course. That's why something like 80% of people believe it is too dangerous to use the road without a great deal of protective steel and other restraints to protect you. Oh why the insurance premiums are around two magnitudes greater than for cyclists. Oh and kids are not allowed to use the streets anymore. Are you real?

(20% of 18-24 do decide cars are uninsureable)

QED?

 

[Davidc]

Right got it. The tiny minority of motorists who don't drive sensibly and responsibly is a truly a tiny 83% (RAC linky). My apologies I didn't realise it was that small. Any chance of that tenner

That is a figure for occasional speeding, not for what we are discussing. I await your tenner.

 

[400bhp]

Imagine any of the people you know as a magistrate, or on a jury, asked to rule on a case where a driver pulled out of a junction on his way to work knocking down a cyclist and later said he'd had a restless night because his small child had been ill. Would they be saying "no, that's unacceptable, you should have taken the day off work, now you're going down for a tretch" or would they be saying "oh no, how unfortunate (yes I realise you need the car or you'll lose your job and your family will be homeless)" and thinking "wow, I'm glad that wasn't me"? THere's a range of possible reactions depending on individual's experiences, but I imagine that most drivers would be more towards the lenient end of the continuum not the the strict one. There's a strong sense of "there but for the grace of God" in social reactions to car accidents

To be fair Dan, that kind of mitigation would probably work, to some extent, in many criminal cases too.

 

[400bhp]

:sigh:

thread moves onto cars..

 

[400bhp]

Thanks

Good post - wish you would bring out your argument more clearly earlier on

 

[400bhp]

Oh sorry, I would have thought that someone who defines himself by reference to a car and its power output would relish that.

Then you spoil it

 

[400bhp]

Oh sorry, I would have thought that someone who defines himself by reference to a car and its power output would relish that.

You're taking a lot in from my avatar and username

 

[Devonshiredave]

I saw a hoody ninja tonight. Cycled between me and the guy in front of me at a junction (I was in my car just to clarify).Bumped up the pavement and on his way. Didn't look right when crossing the junction or left when joining the pavement. No point I suppose wearing a hoody?

 

[StuartG]

That is a figure for occasional speeding, not for what we are discussing. I await your tenner.

Sorry I did not realise you had difficulty reading.. The tiny minority of 83% IS FOR THOSE WHO ADMIT TO SPEEDING REGULARLY. Did those capitals help you to grasp the issue? Perhaps you had better spend the tenner on a pair of glasses.

 

[Davidc]

Imagine any of the people you know as a magistrate, or on a jury, asked to rule on a case where a driver pulled out of a junction on his way to work knocking down a cyclist and later said he'd had a restless night because his small child had been ill. Would they be saying "no, that's unacceptable, you should have taken the day off work, now you're going down for a tretch" or would they be saying "oh no, how unfortunate (yes I realise you need the car or you'll lose your job and your family will be homeless)" and thinking "wow, I'm glad that wasn't me"? THere's a range of possible reactions depending on individual's experiences, but I imagine that most drivers would be more towards the lenient end of the continuum not the the strict one. There's a strong sense of "there but for the grace of God" in social reactions to car accidents

As you said, and I didn't question it, the courts are too lenient and are out of touch.

The response to incidents of that sort among the very mixed groups of people I meet is now more likely to be that the driver should have been banned and fined heavily.

18 months ago we had a very serious fatality near here which has been national news, when Amy Hoffmeister, aged 13, cycling on a cycle path, was killed and her friend seriously injured. The response was universally that the sentences were far too lenient. After the appeal which got one of the driver's sentence increased they were about half the maximum.

Locally that crash has had interesting effects on vehicle speeds and the social status of speeding which have lasted until now.

Attitudes among those I meet in this area and also in the London area have all shifted in recent years, in the same direction, and I'm sure the courts will catch up, eventually.

 

[Davidc]

Sorry I did not realise you had difficulty reading.. The tiny minority of 83% IS FOR THOSE WHO ADMIT TO SPEEDING REGULARLY. Did those capitals help you to grasp the issue? Perhaps you had better spend the tenner on a pair of glasses.

I refer you to my post above, which clearly demonstrates that your conjecture is wrong.

The item you have referred to may suggest, if the figures are of any significance at all, that many of us occasionally break the letter of the law, it does not show a lack of sensible and responsible driving.