Saw a dog attack my grandchild!

[oldfatfool]

And I am getting to the end of my tether with being tarred with the same brush, apparently we are all irresposible idiots or something equally idiotic.



I get totally what you are saying, I do, and I keep my dog on a lead, but it is just this whole 'Yeah right' business that gets me, as if the dog so obviously has been violent before..... Sorry, but who are you, Mystic Meg?? A mind reader who knows every dog ever? (It is the same when a dog does something for the first time, people all go 'Yeah right', the condescending twunts, there is a first time for everything).

Dog owners are emotional idiots, fact. some are irresponsable. No they shouldn't be tarred with the same brush but it is easier and safer to do so.

Up to a few weeks ago I had four greys in residence, (we have lost 2 to cancer over the last 6 months) so in no way can I be construed to be 'anti' dog but as a postman for 15 years the number of serious dog bites I have seen or heard of that have been a result of people saying don't worry he doesn't bite, soon followed by 'well he's never done that before you must have upset him before' ......... and these have been in nice respectable homes in good areas. So even as a dog lover and an advocate of dog welfare I would still never take an owners word until I had assessed the dog myself. Oh and ime little dogs are 10 x more likely to be aggressive than a big one in an home environment.

As for dogs allowed off leash, its a no to me in an open public space, only causes aggro with dogs on leash at the very least, oh but he only came up to play and your dog attacked him, well if you hadn't let it wander around unchecked and come barging up to my dog barking then maybe a dog on a leash wouldn't have been able to retaliate?

I won't get into what should happen to the dog, it was outside of its home 'pack' etc etc so down to the individuals.

 

[oldfatfool]

Aha. The "it has never done that before" school of muddled thinking.

Dog people. Control your mutt at all times. Muzzle it in public places. Then you'll never have to say those words.

And clear its excrement up after you.

Whilst I agree with you, muzzling is a bit of a two edged sword, dogs don't like it and it makes them more aggresive in some cases, un-muzzled dogs recognise the fact (they do honestly) and take advantage as the muzzled dog as no defence, but mainly the general pub lice seeing a muzzled dog in public immediately tar the animal as a dangerous rabid beast and either cross the street or scream at their off-spring to avoid at all costs, this imo is more emotionally scarring for the kids than a dog bite, and also makes the dog into an anti-social beast after time.

Mine are obviously used to muzzling from their racing days, but the only time they are muzzled now is on 'pack walks' were dozens of other greys are present and the difference in the attitude of strangers to seeing a dog walked with and without a muzzle is night and day.

 

[KneesUp]

And I am getting to the end of my tether with being tarred with the same brush, apparently we are all irresposible idiots or something equally idiotic.



I get totally what you are saying, I do, and I keep my dog on a lead, but it is just this whole 'Yeah right' business that gets me, as if the dog so obviously has been violent before..... Sorry, but who are you, Mystic Meg?? A mind reader who knows every dog ever? (It is the same when a dog does something for the first time, people all go 'Yeah right', the condescending twunts, there is a first time for everything).

...remembers being in an otherwise empty park with two-year-old-KneesUp who was toddling about, and seeing a large dog come streaking across the field. I ran to Little KU, and snatched her into the air as the dog - which was the same height as her, roughly, ran straight through the spot where she had been stood a fraction of a second earlier. In effect I used her as a matador's cape. Had I not lifted her, the dog would have flattened her. No question about it at all.

Of course it was "just being friendly" because "he's ever so inquisitive" - the owner told me so when she eventually caught up with her "lovely dog" whom she was apparently unable to control or recall. Of course he'd never hurt anyone. It's not what dogs do, is it ... ?

When it comes to giving autonomous animals with teeth and claws and an instinct to hunt and find an order in a hierarchy, I prefer not to give them the opportunity for there to be a first time.

 

[KneesUp]

Whilst I agree with you, muzzling is a bit of a two edged sword, dogs don't like it and it makes them more aggresive in some cases, un-muzzled dogs recognise the fact (they do honestly) and take advantage as the muzzled dog as no defence,

And if all dogs were muzzled in public this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Pale Rider]

It's a common theme of dangerous dogs court cases that the baffled - and often distressed - owner will say there was no indication of bad behaviour from the dog in years of ownership.

Dogs will sometimes randomly attack a child or adult with no prior warning.

Humans do the same, there was the case of the guy on the tube in London who was fatally stabbed by the stranger sitting opposite him.

The only difference is statistical, a human random attack is very rare, a dog random attack is rare, but less so.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

I'm a dog lover. And this incident is a hard one. I am leaning towards this dog needing to be rehomed with experienced dog handlers away from children. It should have at least a chance of a life after proper training. It has not acted out of malice but by instinct.

But on the other hand it's easy to say this when it's not my child who has been bitten.

My dog is always on a lead in public. Will sit, stay, leave, and recall. It is only ever off lead in areas where it cannot leave, and where I can see the whole area.

If people come, or even other dogs I recall and put him back on a lead before they enter.

But I would never advocate any person keeping a dog around children too young to understand the risk as there is always an unknown.

 

[KneesUp]

t should have at least a chance of a life after proper training. It has not acted out of malice but by instinct.

Do animals do 'mailce'? And how far would you extend the idea of giving an animal a proper life after training? Are all animals excused a single instance of attacking a baby? Would you say the same if the OP had not been so quick-reacting and the baby had even more serious injuries?

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Do animals do 'mailce'? And how far would you extend the idea of giving an animal a proper life after training? Are all animals excused a single instance of attacking a baby? Would you say the same if the OP had not been so quick-reacting and the baby had even more serious injuries?

I did say it is difficult as I have no emotional attachment to the OP or this incident.

But if this is a family pet that everybody has molly-coddled given my everything it wants and hasn't been trained to follow the most basic commands. Such as sit. Stay. Leave. Return. Which I think are necessary for keeping any dog under control. Even around the house.

If this dog hasn't had this kind of basic training this kind of incident is almost inevitable. There are too many owners who buy dogs but can't invest the time or money to train properly.

Wow. That waffled a bit, but back to my point. If this dog has never been trained I think it should at least have an opportunity to do so. In the care of more suitable owners.

If this was a dog that was trained, and has totally ignored all commands then I agree, the animal is dangerous.

The dogs actions are terrible but depending on the training. It's likely to be the failings of a human too. And those owners should be feeling the full weight of the law.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Interestingly. The law could state the OP was the keeper and the one in control of the dog at the time of the incident. And could also be liable for prosecution.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

And if all dogs were muzzled in public this wouldn't be a problem.

So the answer to incapable/irresponsible/badly trained owners owners is muzzle the dogs, same as the answer to red light jumpers is to ban cyclists.

 

[ColinJ]

the general pub lice seeing a muzzled dog in public immediately tar the animal as a dangerous rabid beast

Great bit of predictive text there!

Years ago I was walking past a farm with my girlfriend when a dog barked from the farmyard. My girlfriend, who had been holding my hand, cringed in terror and sank her fingernails deep into my flesh. I had to prise her hand away from mine. I did not know until then that she been bitten by a large dog when she was a girl. It only took one bark to bring back the trauma of the attack. She had been playing on a swing when the unleashed dog spotted her and launched its attack.

As for "Don't worry, he doesn't bite!" ... I once had a large Dalmation run into the road and leap at me while I was cycling by. It's owner was laughing and going on about how friendly he was! The traffic was heavy at the time and I nearly ended up squashed by one of the vehicles. Some people are too stupid to look after themselves, let alone big dogs.

 

[Proto]

Many years ago we had a West Highland Terrier. Lovely little dog, knew the family the dog came from well, all good. However, we eventually had to re-home her as she on two occasions bit my daughter on the face. My son, who was about 6 at the time used to treat the dog fairly robustly, not afraid to give it a boot every now and again, and I'm sure the dog knew where it stood in the pecking order. Dog never gve him any trouble. My daughter, aged 8, on the other hand treated the dog more like a doll to be played with. Cuddling, dressing up, usual girlie stuff. I suspect the dog became confused about its status and was reasserting itself. Not really the dog's faulty, they are basically half trained, semi wild animals, in an unnatural environment. We got off lightly but it had to go before it did some more serious damage.
We now have a lurcher, lovely dog. Very occasionally there will be a bit of a rumble with another dog, but this is always when she's on the lead, I suspect that the lead takes away her feeling of freedom and they feel vulnerable or something. Never more than a shouting match but disturbing, and unpleasant.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Many years ago we had a West Highland Terrier. Lovely little dog, knew the family the dog came from well, all good. However, we eventually had to re-home her as she on two occasions bit my daughter on the face. My son, who was about 6 at the time used to treat the dog fairly robustly, not afraid to give it a boot every now and again, and I'm sure the dog knew where it stood in the pecking order. Dog never gve him any trouble. My daughter, aged 8, on the other hand treated the dog more like a doll to be played with. Cuddling, dressing up, usual girlie stuff. I suspect the dog became confused about its status and was reasserting itself. Not really the dog's faulty, they are basically half trained, semi wild animals, in an unnatural environment. We got off lightly but it had to go before it did some more serious damage.
We now have a lurcher, lovely dog. Very occasionally there will be a bit of a rumble with another dog, but this is always when she's on the lead, I suspect that the lead takes away her feeling of freedom and they feel vulnerable or something. Never more than a shouting match but disturbing, and unpleasant.

Regularly kick a dog then get surprised when it bites while in another unusual situation.

 

[Smithbat]

As I said Paul, my lad suffered similar at two, attacked by a dog in nursery! It split him from lip to nose, it's barely noticeable now, he's 18, & he has no memory of the incident.

I too was bitten on the face when I was about 18 months old, I have a barely visible scar and absolutely no memory of the incident whatsoever, so please do not worry that Eddy will remember, I am sure he wont.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

Aha. The "it has never done that before" school of muddled thinking.

It is only muddled if you use it as an excuse to let your dog do anything it wants.

People USED to come up to Cindy and also our previous dog Bruno and ask

'Does she/he bite?'

No real idea why, or why it seems to have stopped now, but at the time, we could have done the whole sarcastic

'Yeah, that's why they are in a public place you moron'

type of response, but all we ever said was

'No'

What the answer should have been, and we knew it was

'Not as far as we are aware'

or

'Not yet'.

That last one would have all the 'experts' on here going

'Yeah right!'



I keep Cindy on a lead at all times, more for her own safety these days, but it is common sense anyway.

Dog people. Control your mutt at all times. Muzzle it in public places. Then you'll never have to say those words.
And clear its excrement up after you.

Children people, keep your screaming irrational snotty nosed charge away, and stop annoying my dog. Then you will never have to say 'Yeah right!'.

Oh and clean up after.... Actually, forget about that last bit....

Dog owners are emotional idiots, fact. some are irresponsable. No they shouldn't be tarred with the same brush but it is easier and safer to do so.

Gee.... Thanks for that!!

Up to a few weeks ago I had four greys in residence, (we have lost 2 to cancer over the last 6 months) so in no way can I be construed to be 'anti' dog but as a postman for 15 years the number of serious dog bites I have seen or heard of that have been a result of people saying don't worry he doesn't bite, soon followed by 'well he's never done that before you must have upset him before' ......... and these have been in nice respectable homes in good areas. So even as a dog lover and an advocate of dog welfare I would still never take an owners word until I had assessed the dog myself. Oh and ime little dogs are 10 x more likely to be aggressive than a big one in an home environment.

Sorry to hear about your dogs, your house must feel so empty now. As for dogs doing something for the first time, whilst I cannot comment on any of the situations, there HAD to be some that were, it is like people, you don't just spend your entire life doing exactly the same thing, so why should it apply to dogs?

...remembers being in an otherwise empty park with two-year-old-KneesUp who was toddling about, and seeing a large dog come streaking across the field. I ran to Little KU, and snatched her into the air as the dog - which was the same height as her, roughly, ran straight through the spot where she had been stood a fraction of a second earlier. In effect I used her as a matador's cape. Had I not lifted her, the dog would have flattened her. No question about it at all.

Of course it was "just being friendly" because "he's ever so inquisitive" - the owner told me so when she eventually caught up with her "lovely dog" whom she was apparently unable to control or recall. Of course he'd never hurt anyone. It's not what dogs do, is it ... ?

When it comes to giving autonomous animals with teeth and claws and an instinct to hunt and find an order in a hierarchy, I prefer not to give them the opportunity for there to be a first time.

I cannot comment on the situation, what I have seen dogs do is suddenly change course at the last moment. I think it is some sort of game with them to see what you will do.

As I said originally, I keep Cindy on the lead at all times...

And if all dogs were muzzled in public this wouldn't be a problem.

Most dogs aren't a problem, it is a tiny minority, it is like everything else.
Some humans are violent, so should we all have to walk about with big tied up mittens on (or similar) so as to stop people doing anything??

It's a common theme of dangerous dogs court cases that the baffled - and often distressed - owner will say there was no indication of bad behaviour from the dog in years of ownership.

Dogs will sometimes randomly attack a child or adult with no prior warning.

Humans do the same, there was the case of the guy on the tube in London who was fatally stabbed by the stranger sitting opposite him.

The only difference is statistical, a human random attack is very rare, a dog random attack is rare, but less so.

This.

But of course

'Yeah right!'.



I did say in my post before that I keep Cindy on a lead at all times by the way!