Saw a dog attack my grandchild!

[pubrunner]

What % of dogs have been trained to be under control when off the lead ?

Very few indeed, excluding Police and Guide dogs, fewer than 10% - quite possibly, under 5%.

. . . I see a vanishing small number of obedient mutts, and even fewer ones that could be described as under their owners control.

My experience is the same and I find it very frustrating. I frequently encounter owners who have a dog that isn't on a lead and which is 'eager' to meet my Ridgeback. I don't like keeping her on a lead, because if the other dog 'has a go' (which has happened once or twice), my dog (on a lead) will be at a disadvantage as she can't move freely. Off the lead, she won't start anything, but she's more than capable of finishing it; but frankly, I (& the dog) shouldn't be put in a position where we have to defend ourselves.

About 15 years ago, I was running on a narrow country lane, up towards Offa's Dyke with my Dane X (Freda) and a running mate. Over the hedge to our left, my friend and I could see two Alsatians 'arrowing' across a field towards us; they found a gap in the hedge and come out behind us onto the road. They sprinted towards us - quite clearly intent on trouble and they then became aware of my dog 'Freda'; Freda spun round behind the Alsatians and then chased them up the road, whereupon they found another gap in the hedge and 'escaped'. On my son's life, this brief tale is entirely true and I've a witness to prove it.

The thing is though, the Alsatians didn't know that Freda was there, until they came out on the road; if she hadn't been there, I wouldn't like to think what might have happened - dressed in lightweight running gear, we weren't in any position to defend ourselves. It cannot be right, that this kind of situation can arise . . . and the owner of the Alsatians, would have been totally oblivious to what had occurred - how can that be responsible dog ownership ? Freda saved me on quite a few occasions, from mangy (& aggressive) sheepdogs - the kind that many runners will have encountered whilst out on a training run in the countryside.

I was watching a program about Police in Manchester just the other night and a Policeman described the force with which a dog can 'chomp' down on someone's arm. The camera showed how a 16+ stone guy was pulled down from a wall that he was trying to climb, by a Police dog and he was clearly in a significant amount of pain. Just one bite from a dog, can cause a massive amount of pain and a significant amount of damage.

Bravo if you can do it,. . .

It takes time; I got it 'right', largely because the dog was with me virtually all the time, so her behaviour was constantly modified. My lifestyle at the time, was ideally suited for a large and very fit dog. Being in a pub helped, because it meant that she became well socialised. At the time, I was running around 40-50 miles a week and the dog was my primary companion. The exercise must have helped burn off any excess energy, so in the pub, she spent most of the time asleep.

The exercise aspect shouldn't be overlooked; it isn't merely a matter of 'training' a dog, but what the dog does and how it lives it's life. They should (must) also be well-exercised and well-fed. Far too many dogs are under-exercised; they stay in for most of the day and when the owners get home, they can't be bothered to go out in the cold & wet weather and give the dog the exercise it craves. Such dogs become over-excited or over-energetic and that's when trouble can start; hardly surprising therefore, that when let off the lead, they race around - frequently out of control.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Very few indeed, excluding Police and Guide dogs, fewer than 10% - quite possibly, under 5%.



My experience is the same and I find it very frustrating. I frequently encounter owners who have a dog that isn't on a lead and which is 'eager' to meet my Ridgeback. I don't like keeping her on a lead, because if the other dog 'has a go' (which has happened once or twice), my dog (on a lead) will be at a disadvantage as she can't move freely. Off the lead, she won't start anything, but she's more than capable of finishing it; but frankly, I (& the dog) shouldn't be put in a position where we have to defend ourselves.

About 15 years ago, I was running on a narrow country lane, up towards Offa's Dyke with my Dane X (Freda) and a running mate. Over the hedge to our left, my friend and I could see two Alsatians 'arrowing' across a field towards us; they found a gap in the hedge and come out behind us onto the road. They sprinted towards us - quite clearly intent on trouble and they then became aware of my dog 'Freda'; Freda spun round behind the Alsatians and then chased them up the road, whereupon they found another gap in the hedge and 'escaped'. On my son's life, this brief tale is entirely true and I've a witness to prove it.

The thing is though, the Alsatians didn't know that Freda was there, until they came out on the road; if she hadn't been there, I wouldn't like to think what might have happened - dressed in lightweight running gear, we weren't in any position to defend ourselves. It cannot be right, that this kind of situation can arise . . . and the owner of the Alsatians, would have been totally oblivious to what had occurred - how can that be responsible dog ownership ? Freda saved me on quite a few occasions, from mangy (& aggressive) sheepdogs - the kind that many runners will have encountered whilst out on a training run in the countryside.

I was watching a program about Police in Manchester just the other night and a Policeman described the force with which a dog can 'chomp' down on someone's arm. The camera showed how a 16+ stone guy was pulled down from a wall that he was trying to climb, by a Police dog and he was clearly in a significant amount of pain. Just one bite from a dog, can cause a massive amount of pain and a significant amount of damage.



It takes time; I got it 'right', largely because the dog was with me virtually all the time, so her behaviour was constantly modified. My lifestyle at the time, was ideally suited for a large and very fit dog. Being in a pub helped, because it meant that she became well socialised. At the time, I was running around 40-50 miles a week and the dog was my primary companion. The exercise must have helped burn off any excess energy, so in the pub, she spent most of the time asleep.

The exercise aspect shouldn't be overlooked; it isn't merely a matter of 'training' a dog, but what the dog does and how it lives it's life. They should (must) also be well-exercised and well-fed. Far too many dogs are under-exercised; they stay in for most of the day and when the owners get home, they can't be bothered to go out in the cold & wet weather and give the dog the exercise it craves. Such dogs become over-excited or over-energetic and that's when trouble can start; hardly surprising therefore, that when let off the lead, they race around - frequently out of control.

I'm sure you'd find something to object to if it was the cruft's world obedience champion.

 

[ColinJ]

I was watching a program about Police in Manchester just the other night and a Policeman described the force with which a dog can 'chomp' down on someone's arm. The camera showed how a 16+ stone guy was pulled down from a wall that he was trying to climb, by a Police dog and he was clearly in a significant amount of pain. Just one bite from a dog, can cause a massive amount of pain and a significant amount of damage.

Before the ban on them, I saw a couple of Pit Bull Terriers chained up outside a shop in Hebden Bridge. I didn't know what they were at the time but they were very scary-looking so I stepped into the road to pass them. As I did so, one chomped down hard on something and I saw blood coming out of its mouth, then two halves of a housebrick fell to the pavement ... FFS - it had bitten a brick in half!

 

[bonsaibilly]

Very few indeed, excluding Police and Guide dogs, fewer than 10% - quite possibly, under 5%.



My experience is the same and I find it very frustrating. I frequently encounter owners who have a dog that isn't on a lead and which is 'eager' to meet my Ridgeback. I don't like keeping her on a lead, because if the other dog 'has a go' (which has happened once or twice), my dog (on a lead) will be at a disadvantage as she can't move freely. Off the lead, she won't start anything, but she's more than capable of finishing it; but frankly, I (& the dog) shouldn't be put in a position where we have to defend ourselves.

About 15 years ago, I was running on a narrow country lane, up towards Offa's Dyke with my Dane X (Freda) and a running mate. Over the hedge to our left, my friend and I could see two Alsatians 'arrowing' across a field towards us; they found a gap in the hedge and come out behind us onto the road. They sprinted towards us - quite clearly intent on trouble and they then became aware of my dog 'Freda'; Freda spun round behind the Alsatians and then chased them up the road, whereupon they found another gap in the hedge and 'escaped'. On my son's life, this brief tale is entirely true and I've a witness to prove it.

The thing is though, the Alsatians didn't know that Freda was there, until they came out on the road; if she hadn't been there, I wouldn't like to think what might have happened - dressed in lightweight running gear, we weren't in any position to defend ourselves. It cannot be right, that this kind of situation can arise . . . and the owner of the Alsatians, would have been totally oblivious to what had occurred - how can that be responsible dog ownership ? Freda saved me on quite a few occasions, from mangy (& aggressive) sheepdogs - the kind that many runners will have encountered whilst out on a training run in the countryside.

I was watching a program about Police in Manchester just the other night and a Policeman described the force with which a dog can 'chomp' down on someone's arm. The camera showed how a 16+ stone guy was pulled down from a wall that he was trying to climb, by a Police dog and he was clearly in a significant amount of pain. Just one bite from a dog, can cause a massive amount of pain and a significant amount of damage.



It takes time; I got it 'right', largely because the dog was with me virtually all the time, so her behaviour was constantly modified. My lifestyle at the time, was ideally suited for a large and very fit dog. Being in a pub helped, because it meant that she became well socialised. At the time, I was running around 40-50 miles a week and the dog was my primary companion. The exercise must have helped burn off any excess energy, so in the pub, she spent most of the time asleep.

The exercise aspect shouldn't be overlooked; it isn't merely a matter of 'training' a dog, but what the dog does and how it lives it's life. They should (must) also be well-exercised and well-fed. Far too many dogs are under-exercised; they stay in for most of the day and when the owners get home, they can't be bothered to go out in the cold & wet weather and give the dog the exercise it craves. Such dogs become over-excited or over-energetic and that's when trouble can start; hardly surprising therefore, that when let off the lead, they race around - frequently out of control.

Isn't it just as probable that the Alsatians smelled your dog and came running to see what the score was, and then got the message and retreated?

It always amuses me to hear people attempting to describe any given dog or dogs' behaviour and what they are saying to each other. None of us speak Dog so it's ridiculous. The only thing I am fairly sure of is that dogs behave better if they know their place, which in a household of humans is supposed to be at the bottom of the hierarchy. Most problems seem to arise when humans don't make it clear to the dog that it is a mere nothing compared to them.

And I would press for the dog in the original thread to be killed. I don't see why the message should go out that its life is more important than that of a child's.

BB

 

[pubrunner]

Isn't it just as probable that the Alsatians smelled your dog and came running to see what the score was, and then got the message and retreated?

No, they were a few hundred yards away and could see our heads above the hedgeline.

 

[Reynard]

Neighbours of mine had a border collie from working lines. The dog got walked in the morning and in the evening and spent the rest of the day chained up in the garden. It wasn't allowed in the house. They eventually had to have the dog put down because it had become destructive and aggressive. Bottom line was, the poor thing was probably bored out of its skull.

The neighbours were retired farmers, they'd had working dogs all their lives and they simply hadn't thought things through about how things would change once they retired and downsized. I guess I'd put it down to ignorance and the fact that they didn't want to spend money on the dog bar the basics. What they *should* have done was take the dog to something like agility, obedience or flyball, provide it with toys and puzzle feeders etc and, most importantly, provide it with companionship and training.

I was terrified of that dog, simply because I just had no idea what it would do next. It never bit me, but there were a fair few near misses...

 

[Drago]

You can train any dog to air scent, although some breeds are obviously better suited. Curiously, it's almost impossible to teach a dog to air scent once it's been trained to ground scent.

You can tell I work with search dogs

 

[bonsaibilly]

No, they were a few hundred yards away and could see our heads above the hedgeline.

How do you know they didn't also smell or see your dog?

 

[Pale Rider]

How do you know they didn't also smell or see your dog?

How do you know they were not simply having a sprint contest?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but lots of people on this thread have made lots of bold statements about dogs' behaviour which can only be assumptions.

Which illustrates the problem, you can never be certain of what a dog will do next.

All you can say, which so many owners of dogs which have maimed and killed people do say, is the dog's never done it before.

Training does makes a dog's behaviour more predictable, but to say: "My dog would never attack anyone because it's well trained" is cobblers.

 

[pubrunner]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, . . . . . . .

I can tell.

. . . . . . . but lots of people on this thread have made lots of bold statements about dogs' behaviour which can only be assumptions.

Which illustrates the problem, you can never be certain of what a dog will do next.

My statements are based on nearly 40 years of experience (ownership) of large dogs - no assumptions there.

Your comment doesn't seem to 'illustrate' anything other than your own opinion - based on ?

Training does makes a dog's behaviour more predictable, but to say: "My dog would never attack anyone because it's well trained" is cobblers.

There were/are circumstances under which my dogs would attack someone - such as, if someone attacked me or another family member. If you'd read my earlier postings, you'd have seen that I mentioned that there are other important considerations in dog ownership which are frequently ignored - primarily, exercise, stimulation and 'socialisation'.

 

[Drago]

I'm 100% confident Lemmy would never attack a human, except to protect his family. I'd stake money on it.

However, as good as Amy is with him she's only 5 and I wouldn't trust her not to pull his tail, poke him in the eye or such like, and provoke a genetically encoded animal reaction. That is why I don't leave them unattended together, because I don't trust her with the dog, not the other way around, and it's pointless having a dog destroyed after it's already attacked.

 

[pubrunner]

I'm 100% confident Lemmy would never attack a human, except to protect his family. I'd stake money on it.

However, as good as Amy is with him she's only 5 and I wouldn't trust her not to pull his tail, poke him in the eye or such like, and provoke a genetically encoded animal reaction. That is why I don't leave them unattended together, because I don't trust her with the dog, not the other way around, and it's pointless having a dog destroyed after it's already attacked.

Exactly !

I trusted my dogs, but I wouldn't ever have left them alone with a young child; it's all part of sensible (responsible) dog ownership.

 

[Pale Rider]

I can tell.



My statements are based on nearly 40 years of experience (ownership) of large dogs - no assumptions there.

Your comment doesn't seem to 'illustrate' anything other than your own opinion - based on ?



There were/are circumstances under which my dogs would attack someone - such as, if someone attacked me or another family member. If you'd read my earlier postings, you'd have seen that I mentioned that there are other important considerations in dog ownership which are frequently ignored - primarily, exercise, stimulation and 'socialisation'.

Seems to me the majority of attacks are unexpected, all but random, and there's only dog psychology guesses to explain why.

This makes the risk very difficult to manage.

It must be true that a well trained and kept dog - such as one you had - presents a lower risk than a dog without that care and training.

But most owners of dogs who have attacked claim to be responsible owners.

They could all be lying, but a reasonable interpretation of the evidence is that some well trained dogs do attack a person for no apparent reason.

Your comment that your dog would attack if someone attacked you or your family is worrying.

The hapless victim may only be playing or play fighting with one of your children, but the dog picks up the wrong end of the stick.

Unless you are saying your dog was so clever it could correctly interpret all human interaction.

 

[pubrunner]

Your comment that your dog would attack if someone attacked you or your family is worrying.

The hapless victim may only be playing or play fighting with one of your children, but the dog picks up the wrong end of the stick.

I can't speak for others, but my dogs certainly could tell the difference between 'play' fighting and real fighting. However, a sensible owner won't allow 'play fighting' in the vicinity of their dog.

But most owners of dogs who have attacked claim to be responsible owners.

There is great responsibility in owning a dog, especially one that is powerful enough to hurt or kill an adult. Most owners think that 'responsible' means just feeding a dog and (if it is lucky), giving it a walk a couple of times a day. Our dog has human company in our house - all day, every day; if we couldn't do this, we wouldn't have a dog. We know where she is and what she is doing.

Unless you are saying your dog was so clever it could correctly interpret all human interaction.

Yes, she's typing this, as I'm dictating it to her - she's getting me a beer next.

 

[alicat]

So glad your grandson is on the mend. Those stitches look very neat.