Self preservation, are car drivers putting you off?

[presta]

I do notice that certain vehicle makes/styles are far more likely to show lack of consideration for cyclists.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-ne...3911?msockid=3c0c82b7889961aa0a7794bc89226096

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I am not on social media, other than Strava

Ahem ... you're on here too!

I completely agree @Ming the Merciless the perceived and actual are very different I think. As @All uphill says roadcraft, confidence play a huge part.

Imo the perceived is only slightly more pessimistic than the actual.
I'm a woman, 60+ now, been cycling everywhere since my late 40's because I was fed up with public transport, didn't want the expense of running a car, I hate driving anyway.
I went on the usual cycling training courses, I'm quite confident on the road, but I'm slow.
I have been close passed, punishment passed, verbally abused on roads quite a few times, even though I'm a risk avoider by nature, don't ride busy roads.
On shared paths pedestrians shout "on the road with that thing (the bike)", on the roads the drivers shout "get on the cycle path", even if there isn't one, they mean the pavement!
Random folk I don't even know, if they find out I cycle: " cyclists should not be on the road" - red light jumping! - all in dark, can't be seen! - can't park for all the cycling lanes!
People that don't even drive: cyclists are a menace!
Strangely enough, I don't hear complains about delivery riders, everyone wants their dinner delivered, no matter on how many wheels.
The best comment yet, from a colleague, a non driver: you should wear a helmet, so if you get run over the driver won't feel guilty they gave you a brain injury

 

[Drago]

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-ne...3911?msockid=3c0c82b7889961aa0a7794bc89226096

Probably because theyre now the most numerous. 15 years ago they they were driving a 3 series, but behaved in much the same way.

 

[HMS_Dave]

Other road users are an inconvenience and in some cases are deadly, but from another perspective, i have lost the weight of a male human adult over these past 6 or so years cycling and for all i know, cycling has already positively saved my life. So you can chalk one up to team positive. Don't give the negative road users what they want. It's not as hostile as they type about on their keyboards on Myface and TwiXter...

 

[PaulSB]

Have you seen this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3iLnFZ7Bsc

This mirrors my experience, an aggressive driver is more likely to be driving a large expensive vehicle. The Australian article coincides with my experience that SUV and 4x4 car drivers are an increasing problem. I don't like to say it but these SUVs are often driven by clearly stressed women ferrying the kids around. They exude a sense of entitlement which I find hard to accept.

It's not just on the road drivers of this type of vehicle can be a problem wherever they are, especially the ones who can't reverse or park.

On Tuesday I drove from the M6 to Ravenglass after dark. The A595 is an unlit, narrow, single lane A road for a large part of this journey. It was pouring with rain and visibility was terrible. The drive was made very hazardous by, presumably local, drivers of SUVs with LED lights following just close enough to be intimidating. I pulled over when I could to let these drivers by. We drove back on Friday in sunshine. It was a very enjoyable road to be on but I did marvel at how we'd survived the Tuesday night journey.

As a cyclist I find driver awareness and attitude towards us has notably improved but the idiots are still, and always will be, there. The only change in my cycling behaviour I've made is the route to the meet point for group rides. My ride on this route tends to coincide with rush hour, it's become extremely busy. The new route at 8 miles is an extra 2½ miles but only takes 5 minutes longer. The old route has seven traffic lights, the new one only two.

My riding has always avoided busy roads. I see this change as reacting to traffic volume rather than driver behaviour.

 

[Drago]

The Australian article coincides with my experience that SUV and 4x4 car drivers are an increasing problem.

Only because theres an increasing amount of them.

Conversely, chavtastic boy racers and 3 series driving reps are on the decline. In NET terms theres pretty much the same number of twots on our roads as there ever was its just the style of vehicles out there has changed.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I am always amazed at the number of drivers who manage to crash, leaving the road, on perfectly straight sections, with good visibility.

 

[grldtnr]

Whatever is written about modern motorists attitude towards cyclists , it still remains, that whilst a lot are tolerant, many take the attitude that you should not inconvenience drivers.
If I am riding on a busy road, I will not ride in the gutter, I take the command position. Especially on roads that have build outs and traffic islands / bollards to separate opposing lanes, considering that traffic congestion doesn't allow more than 30 mph,or less, if I am cycling along 15 mph, I am not holding traffic up.
And yet , I still get close passes , aggressive 'tailgating' if you call it that and those who attempt to squeeze through, , and yet here's the clincher, if I am on my Recumbent trike,, which takes a lot more room up, I don't get this so much, maybe because I do ride far more defensively, when aboard it, my preference is to use the back streets which 'Sarfend' has plenty of, but even then still have to ride aggressively ,I e command the space, I don't do that on the recumbent ,sight lines are too poor.
It's an inescapable fact , that modern drivers do lack road skills when they encounter cyclists, so many rely on safety systems fitted to modern cars that they do fail to appreciate their actions.
I genuinely think that the pass rate is poor , there is a lack of proper high quality training, drivers are taught to pass the 'Test' and not taught to drive, certainly they pay scant regards to learn further one they got that little pink bit of plastic

 

[winjim]

My cargo bike is massive and built like a tank so I do have a certain feeling of invulnerability when I'm riding it. Less so on my other bikes.

I do always take an assertive position in the road, but what I've started doing a bit more consciously is making a mental note of exactly why I'm doing that so I've got a response if I'm challenged. It never happens but it makes me feel a bit more secure in my decision making. It's usually one of three things. State of the road surface / potholes, Death Star trench run style parked cars each side of the road, or crappy cycle lane full of stick and stones and rubbish. I'm fairly confident I could explain all those things in a way which a driver would be sympathetic to.

I did buy a cheapo rear camera but haven't figured out the best way to attach it given the position of my saddlebag, I have a GPS switched on so I can confirm my speed and position etc but that would all be after the fact and I'd prefer to prevent any incidents from happening in the first place.

 

[blackrat]

Whatever is written about modern motorists attitude towards cyclists , it still remains, that whilst a lot are tolerant, many take the attitude that you should not inconvenience drivers.
If I am riding on a busy road, I will not ride in the gutter, I take the command position. Especially on roads that have build outs and traffic islands / bollards to separate opposing lanes, considering that traffic congestion doesn't allow more than 30 mph,or less, if I am cycling along 15 mph, I am not holding traffic up.
And yet , I still get close passes , aggressive 'tailgating' if you call it that and those who attempt to squeeze through, , and yet here's the clincher, if I am on my Recumbent trike,, which takes a lot more room up, I don't get this so much, maybe because I do ride far more defensively, when aboard it, my preference is to use the back streets which 'Sarfend' has plenty of, but even then still have to ride aggressively ,I e command the space, I don't do that on the recumbent ,sight lines are too poor.
It's an inescapable fact , that modern drivers do lack road skills when they encounter cyclists, so many rely on safety systems fitted to modern cars that they do fail to appreciate their actions.
I genuinely think that the pass rate is poor , there is a lack of proper high quality training, drivers are taught to pass the 'Test' and not taught to drive, certainly they pay scant regards to learn further one they got that little pink bit of plastic

"If I am riding on a busy road, I will not ride in the gutter, I take the command position."
I take the trench attitude; If you put your head above the parapet, even if you have every right to do so to have a look round, you'll have it shot off.

 

[winjim]

"If I am riding on a busy road, I will not ride in the gutter, I take the command position."
I take the trench attitude; If you put your head above the parapet, even if you have every right to do so to have a look round, you'll have it shot off.

I want to give myself as many options as I can to mitigate the effect of others mistakes or of bad road conditions etc. That usually involves taking the lane. Primary position is the default, I'll move into secondary as and when I deem it appropriate.

 

[HMS_Dave]

"If I am riding on a busy road, I will not ride in the gutter, I take the command position."
I take the trench attitude; If you put your head above the parapet, even if you have every right to do so to have a look round, you'll have it shot off.

I have seen more people riding on the pavements than i did 5 years ago. A lot of them appear to be commuters going to a major local manufacturer from the next town. They shouldn't be there and i don't do it, but i sort of sympathise even if i don't necessarily agree. They just want to go to work and not end up dead on the way as the road going into the place is pretty terrible both in road surface condition and it's quite dangerous and narrow with fast and blind corners with lorries using it regularly with little to no option of escape.

Plod also likes to park on the grass verge with the safety camera's.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I have seen more people riding on the pavements than i did 5 years ago. A lot of them appear to be commuters going to a major local manufacturer from the next town. They shouldn't be there and i don't do it, but i sort of sympathise even if i don't necessarily agree. They just want to go to work and not end up dead

There's a good deal of pearl-clutching about pavement riding. If done carefully and with respect it's not going to endanger anyone. Theoretically you could get a Fixed Penalty Notice for it, but you'd probably need to be riding like a dick or otherwise drawing attention to yourself for this to happen.

In 1999 Paul Boateng (then Minister for Transport) said “The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required.”
https://road.cc/content/news/108119-transport-minister-responsible-cyclists-can-ride-pavement

 

[Drago]

it's not going to endanger anyone.

Until it does.

The typical cyclist doesnt have the skills to make an effective dynamic risk assessment for that environment. Hell, most are bad enough on the road, eyes never deviating from a fixed distance dead ahead, often without lights at night, but a rider is unlikely to kill a car if they get it wrong.

Avoiding danger by transferring that danger down another level to a different user group is not an answer to anything - it serves only to prove that sheet really does roll downhill.

Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required.”

If the government and those chief scrambled egg ranks did their jobs properly then people wouldn't be afraid to cycle on the road.

In 1999 Paul Boateng (then Minister for Transport) said...

Good luck getting him or his current successor in court to speak on your defence when it goes all bobby.

And then theres the moral issue to consider. Pedestrians already have to put up with cars using thenfootway as a handy parking area. Why should cycling on the footway be any more acceptable?

Impinging upon another user groups resource brings problems of its own, while giving even less incentive for the government to sort the problem that brought it about. If you feel you have to use a footway, dismount and use it properly.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Why should cycling on the footway be any more acceptable?

Well, if the local authority decides that a lot of new cycling facilities will be made by sharing existing pavements, obviously pavement cycling is acceptable when it suits